I agree that would be very interesting. A midfield that can run and press.
The problem is it doesn't suit Busquets and Messi style of play. Both of them prefer a slower paced game with lots of passing in midfield.
Paulinho
- Thread starter xXKonan
- Start date
I agree that would be very interesting. A midfield that can run and press.
The problem is it doesn't suit Busquets and Messi style of play. Both of them prefer a slower paced game with lots of passing in midfield.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
2006: Cdm Edmilson/Motta
Cms Van Bommel/Motta + Deco
Xavi injured all season.
2 out of 3 extremely strong guys.
We won our 2nd CL in a history. Back in the days when Messi wasn't a key man, a one man show.
Van Bommel 187 cm
Thiago Motta 187 cm
Edmilson 186 cm (all strong, unlike Busquets or Gomes).
Deco 174 cm
Xavi 170 cm
Football can be played that way also.
It won't be pretty as prime Tiki-Taka, but we can't play prime Tiki-Taka either way since all of our midfielders suck.
So, it is worth to try Roberto and Paulinho as often as possible. One of them should play in every single match as a starter.
Lineup against Chelsea in 2006:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/chelsea-fc_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/49848
Lb: Van Bronckhorst 178cm
Cb: Puyol 178cm
Cb: Marquez 184cm
Rb: Oleguer 187cm
Cdm: Edmilson 186cm
Cm: Motta 187cm
Cm: Deco 174cm
Lw: Ronaldinho 181cm
Cf: Eto'o 180cm
Rw: young Messi 170cm
I know that height and strength is not everything. But a football can be played this way also.
Especially if your tall players are ok-ish with the ball, pressing, defending and if your attacking line is awesome and lethal.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
I really like that team. In fact I liked the way Rijkaard blended muscle with skill. We could play tiki taka but we knew how to hustle and muscle too.
The only problem with reasoning is that EVERY BRAZILIAN footballer, deep down, only plays for money.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I know that people don't like that theory, but my opinion is that SHORT players worked ONLY and ONLY in the golden era of Xavi-Iniesta-Busi when everything clicked perfectly both in Spain and Barca.
Spain was never a too successfull NT team before Xavi-Iniesta and Barca in general was more or less below their potential throughout our history BEFORE Xavi-Iniesta-Messi.
People constantly repeat and answer: we achieved our greatest success in a history with playing short and technical players, so we need to continue that way.
But again, more or less, roughly:
Barca prior to 2009: played short and technical players and won 2 CLs ever, even though we always had the best team or one of the best 4-5 teams in Europe.
But we always lost in more or less the same way. We will win easily against technical teams like Porto, Juve, Arsenal, Ajax, Roma, French teams etc.
But we will lose in majority of cases against big European teams who possess both some technique and physcial strength (in the past: Milan, Juventus, Inter, Chelsea, Man Utd, Bayern etc).
So: 100 years before Pep=not too much success with short players
4 years with Pep=huge success
Post Pep (post Xavi-Iniesta prime)=average to below expectations in general
Out of 120 years of our history, short players worked more or less only for 4 years.
The same was with Spain. Our type of midfielders never brought success except during prime Xavi-Iniesta.
There is just too many coincidences. Both teams worked perfectly ONLY during prime Xavi and Iniesta.
(Almost) NEVER before that and more or less, never AFTER that.
(Ok, we won a treble in 2015, but you get the point).
I am not saying that we should play 3 Thiago Mottas or Paulinhos in midfield, but imo, in the future, we should mix technique with some muscles.
We can always have one technical guy like Alena, but we can't play 3 Alenas, that is suicidal.
Also, we don't need 3 Mottas.
But Motta-Alena midfield with a decent Cdm (faster and stronger than Busi) in the future, looks much more balanced, especially in tough CL matches against Juventus, Bayern, Chelsea and similar.
Also, another interesting stat, during 4 years when we had Xavi and Deco in our team (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008), we won a CL ONLY ONCE and that happened ONLY in a season when Xavi was injured, so we weren't able to play 2 short Cms (Xavi-Deco) together, but we were forced to play a strong Cm (Van Bommel or Motta) plus Deco, with a strong Cdm (Edmilson) behind them.
As soon as Xavi returned back and Deco-Xavi duo back, we didn't win CLs and we were outrun by physical teams.
(2005 Chelsea, 2007 Liverpool, 2008 Manchester United). Teams with more muscles, pace and stamina than us.
The same story all the time (Psg, Juve today, anyone? Atletico Madrid in recent years?).
The same crap, deja vu all the time.
(I am not implying that Xavi is a problem, but I AM implying that 2 short Cms have been a problem throughout a history, EXCEPT in a golden era during Pep, when it worked since we had a perfect team, Messi and a perfect coach, and imo that tactic won't work EVER again, especially since football is evolving and Real brought our style to an even higher level mixing technique with pace in their midfielders.
Anyway, I am hoping for Roberto or Paulinho in every match.
And I would like to see a team without Busi from time to time (when we will rest him or when he will be inujured) and a midfield trio of Cdm Roberto, Paulinho and let's say Iniesta/Rafinha with 2 muscled guys/runners and one technical guy to see how that will look like in terms of running, defending, pressing and balance.
We will still create 10s of chances with DMS upfront.
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Everything he said makes sense, unlike those dogmatic Pepistas
wisconsincule
Senior Member
I'm against the principle of the signing but BBZ brings up some very valid points. We need some muscle in the midfield and Paulihno brings that.
Neeraj
Senior Member
I get where you're coming from, and Roberto + Paulinho might provide some agility in midfield. But just Roberto hasn't given us that, which we've seen in the past. I do think Roberto should be starting instead of Rakitic in the strongest XI, but I don't think just that change will change the midfield to a "muscle midfield". Roberto isn't a huge guy and isn't weak, but isn't very strong either. I'm going to wait to see what Paulinho offers in this regard.
Iarwain
New member
What are you talking about exactly?
Potroh
New member
Congratulations...
According to your lengthy essays facing back a year or so, Barca's main problem was the MSN and particularly Neymar.
Now that Neymar is gone, you should be the happiest camper in the forum as probably you are the only one being utterly satisfied about what the transfer window brought.
But it seems, instead of being happy, you created a new mania. Hordes of folks (including myself) tried to tell you that last season the team's problem was the midfield and not MSN, which you had never ever reacted upon, just keeping the then prominent mania of looking at Neymar as the weakest link of the chain.
But now, you suddenly turn to the problems of the midfield, that you ignored for that long, and find the problem in a newish factor, namely physicality and size.
I guess you would have been very dissatisfied if Barca got Veratti, Coutinho or Seri this summer, as all of them are short...
I congratulate you for this, just because we can rarely see such an over-simplification...
jumping_box
New member
This whole muscular and short player chain is hilarious ! 
God Serena
New member
I don't know where you've been, but BBZ has been saying our midfield has issues for a very, very long time. He was talking about Rakitic aging faster and losing his legs at an earlier age and people actually argued about how ridiculous he was being. He's been saying we need a squad overhaul for at least a year. Just because you're not around to see the arguments doesn't mean they didn't happen.
ATLBarcaFan
Senior Member
Does he get a start this weekend with Raki out?
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