Pedro Rodriguez

[BerkeleyBernie]

I mean, he has scored 35 goals in all competitions this season so far. You can't just say that there would be no difference between him and Pedro playing the whole season, as it is extremely unlikely Pedro would replicate anything close to 35 goals himself, nor make Messi or Suarez score the equivallent additional goals needed to weigh up for it either.

You need to qualify that argument. Against lower level sides, I don't think playing Neymar makes a difference (as shown in my previous post); Barça will blow them out, regardless. And, of course, we don't have a record of Pedro starting against La Liga's Top Five, so we can't know. However, here are the goal tallies for the 10 La Liga games versus Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Valencia, Sevilla, and Villarreal:

Neymar 5
Messi 7
Suarez 3
Others 5

So Neymar's goal contribution against the top La Liga opponents is 5 goals over 10 games. Certainly a good record, but you are arguing that with Pedro starting, those 5 goals (1 goal every 2 games) couldn't have come from anywhere else (whether Pedro, Messi, Suarez, or another player). You may be right, but it is in no way a certainty.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Bernie, Pedro doesn't have anywhere near the skills to break down defenders 1 on 1 on a consistent basis that Neymar has. If Barcelona had a stronger midfield, I could give your comment more validity, but on the current Barca Neymar is a lot more effective than Pedro.
Both Messi's and Neymar abilities 1 on 1 against defenders have been immense to the functioning of the team this year. Pedro doesn't give you this.

No question Neymar is better 1v1 than Pedro. Entertaining, perhaps, but I can't recall where that has made a difference and created a clear goal-scoring opportunity (such as Messi vs Boateng). I recall a couple of times where he has made some nice moves around the box, but mostly it is much further away from goal.

 

[Vlom]

No question Neymar is better 1v1 than Pedro. Entertaining, perhaps, but I can't recall where that has made a difference and created a clear goal-scoring opportunity (such as Messi vs Boateng). I recall a couple of times where he has made some nice moves around the box, but mostly it is much further away from goal.

He was very "entertaining" against Sevilla and Real Madrid to give only two example, since you can't recall "any".

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

He was very "entertaining" against Sevilla and Real Madrid to give only two example, since you can't recall "any".

I was specifically referring to 1v1 take-ons leading to goal-scoring opportunities- are those such instances? From what I recall, his best qualities in terms of the Barça scoreline are the runs he makes in behind the defense, usually spotted by Messi (which has nothing to do with his 1v1 dribbling ability).

 

[Sumlit]

No question Neymar is better 1v1 than Pedro. Entertaining, perhaps, but I can't recall where that has made a difference and created a clear goal-scoring opportunity (such as Messi vs Boateng). I recall a couple of times where he has made some nice moves around the box, but mostly it is much further away from goal.

Neymar constantly beats player on the left side that Pedro just can't, it's not his game. This threat is key for the way Barca are playing right now. Pedro's main contribution would be work-rate and link-up on the left, and you think that would free Suarez and Messi to have more of the ball and contribute more, but IMO the loss of that additional player capable of threatening the defense and breaking down formations would have a much bigger detrimental effect. Team's could then just key more on Messi and leave the team without a player capable of breaking down your defensive formations with dribble. Look at Neymar's games vs Altetico for an example of this. His presence and constant probing of the Atletico line created all kinds of trouble for them.

Pedro would be a worthy choice if the team had a better midfield to create for the forwards. Then the forwards 1 on 1 skills would be less important, and their link-up and movement would impact more. It is no coincidence Pedro's production and play has decline just as the midfield declined in turn. He was a perfect player for the Pep teams with dominant midfield, less so now where forwards carry a lot more of the onus.

 

[Vlom]

I was specifically referring to 1v1 take-ons leading to goal-scoring opportunities- are those such instances? From what I recall, his best qualities in terms of the Barça scoreline are the runs he makes in behind the defense, usually spotted by Messi (which has nothing to do with his 1v1 dribbling ability).

Well, he assisted Messi's goal against Sevilla after some good dribbles, and against RM in Camp Nou he created good chances for himself by dribbling even though he torshed the finishing, but Pedro couldn't get himself in those situations I'm sorry, he just doesn't have the skills.

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

Are you guys forgetting Neymar running through 2/3 players and scoring a golazo against PSG? of course he can beat his man and make his own chance.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Are you guys forgetting Neymar running through 2/3 players and scoring a golazo against PSG? of course he can beat his man and make his own chance.

The question is whether 1v1 ability (Neymar's regularly touted valid superiority over Pedro) is a consistent threat leading to goal-scoring opportunities (not whether it happens once in awhile, which is true of most Barça players). Sumlit's seems the most reasoned response- less about 1v1 leading directly to scoring, but simply about requiring more coverage from the defenders, thus opening space. I'm not necessarily convinced, but it's the argument that makes the most sense.

 

[CatalinR10]

To be honest, no matter what qualities one feels Neymar brings to the team, I don't think the team on the whole would have done much worse

naaah man , Neymar scored in pretty much all big games , thing that Pedro would have failed to do. Sure he didn't start against big teams so we should know for sure but it's the same as saying that we can't know if a front line of Neymar-Suarez-Pedro would do the same without Messi in a whole season since it wasn't tried.


Neymar is a better dribbler , finisher and a way bigger threat than Pedro. Pedro turns out to be more of a midfielder these days , the player from who is required to keep posession.

 

[Behrox]

What about Soriano? He is linked with us all the time as a sub attacker. A Larsson type of player plus he is good and knows about Barca

 

[mark1nhu]

The question is whether 1v1 ability (Neymar's regularly touted valid superiority over Pedro) is a consistent threat leading to goal-scoring opportunities (not whether it happens once in awhile, which is true of most Barça players). Sumlit's seems the most reasoned response- less about 1v1 leading directly to scoring, but simply about requiring more coverage from the defenders, thus opening space. I'm not necessarily convinced, but it's the argument that makes the most sense.

Neymar is also GREAT fooling offside lines and cutting through defenders. Messi passes are astonishing, of course, but he needs a proper receiver to make it.

I think you also have to count those situations as direct contribution from Neymar.

 

[CatalinR10]

Except for the pass he made to Neymar in the last moments , he was 0 offensive speaking and also lost a lot of balls.



Thank God he didn't play the whole game.

 

[neo_wolf]

Whoever said he was equal to Ney is an idiot.

 

[Zangash]

Fairly standard performance you'd come to expect from Pedro. Nothing glaring to really complain about.

 

[Gasgas]

He was awful. Made us look like we were playing with 10 men