Penal Madrid

El Gato

Villarato!
Madritistas here will be all over me, but IMO Zidane had only 1 and a half good seasons until the summer of 17.
From then on, it was straight downfall despite making a pact with luck and winning another CL.

If anyone is all over you it's because you talk in generalities assembling tactics, player quality, squad management by Perez and JAS and all other factors under the banner of "manager was good/shit between x and y".

What was in downfall?

He was the first to highlight the issues, left when was told by Perez changes can't/won't be made and he was completely right about it.
Many of the same issues persist to this day (Bale and James contracts blocking better investments i.e. Mbappe in 2017, general ageing , CRdependencia upfront, lack of a sensible alternative to Benzema).

Last season, RM was utterly bad, it just happened that all the rest including Barca were even worse.

Bollocks. Best defense in Europe after Bayern.
Poor offense, see points above about the factors that contribute to it not being fixed.

Given also that his best skill is to manage squad of stars at their peak, which is not happening now, I don't see why he should continue.

????
Who's at their peak now?

Especially given that one world-class manager (Poch) is free and ready to take job at any top club, and most of all is suited to rebuild.

Poch like any other manager needs support from the board to make the necessary changes. If Zidane highlighted same problems, got some solutions (Mendy, Jović) but not many others, what's Pochettino gonna do?
 

Birdy

Senior Member
He was the first to highlight the issues, left when was told by Perez changes can't/won't be made and he was completely right about it.
Many of the same issues persist to this day (Bale and James contracts blocking better investments i.e. Mbappe in 2017, general ageing , CRdependencia upfront, lack of a sensible alternative to Benzema).

Poch like any other manager needs support from the board to make the necessary changes. If Zidane highlighted same problems, got some solutions (Mendy, Jović) but not many others, what's Pochettino gonna do?

Maybe he was right to walk, but it wasn't so wise to come back, was it?
Since you say that the issues he first saw persist, why did he do it?
Since also he is not capable of developing and building a team with a tactical identity from scratch, why did he do it?

Of course you will not agree to the last point, but I am not going to repeat things I have explained in tons of posts before. Reality proves you wrong with every passing day.
Poch is different in that he could work and build a fantastic team with not only Mendy and Valverde, but with everyone not starting or being rotational today like Jovic, Odegaard, Vnivius, Rodrygo, Militao, Hakimi, Reguilon as protagonists plus all the others that were sold earlier (Kovasic), while benching all the finished starters.

That's a big difference. But hey, if you don't see it, and you let Poch opportunity slip, that's great man.
Great for Barca :barcaflag:
 

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Great schedule lol

SCH.png
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Maybe he was right to walk, but it wasn't so wise to come back, was it?
Since you say that the issues he first saw persist, why did he do it?
Since also he is not capable of developing and building a team with a tactical identity from scratch, why did he do it?

Maybe not. And surprised most madridistas. Probably only came back because he wanted to, elsewise Solari would have stayed. Opinions about Mourinho coming back in March 2019 after horrendous United tenure are worthless.
If anything he got heaps of respect for returning. Pity he didn't improve. That's the attitude most sensible fans will have.

He did it probably because he thought he will take a stab at it with the squad once it became clear to the board that squad is well past it and changes are necessary to even stay at R16 level after Ajax exposed the flaws.
He most likely came in with a guarantee of some changes. We already know he didn't get everything he wanted in the summer 2019. Was clear because for example Bale didn't leave despite getting frozen out for ages in summer and China deal got blocked for no explained reason.

Then he had to decide whether he lets club profit on sale of Hakimi in middle of Covid when nobody wanted any other of our players, while knowing Carvajal is the better player so didn't even make sense to keep to rotate at uneven standing + no buyer for Odriozola - right decision all in all, should have held out for more cash maybe.
Then he OK'd Reguilon leaving because he and the board didn't know what to do with Marcelo - a mistake.
Vinicius and Rodrygo got plenty of time for their age and still do. Their rotation would be no different under any other manager who would try to take advantage of Hazard when healthy as much as possible.
Played Kovacic a plenty. And the man plays almost exactly the same share of minutes at Chelsea, barely a consistent starter for Lampard. Garbage example.
Odegaard plays enough when fit so far. More of an issue for making him compatible with the other midfielders which hasn't been worked out yet - seemingly would work best with Case-Fede and proper wingers on each side but that leaves Kroos out the side. And we never got a chance to play that 4-2-3-1 consistently.
He did get Jović but failed to coach and nurture him.

All in all - anyone who's half smart about it will see his motivations - Zidane wanted to help Madrid, felt he could and failed on several but not all fronts. Mendy and Fede improved under him. Courtois became a top3 keeper in the world. Vini didn't make any progress but didn't get worse. Rodrygo kind of the same and improving physically. Militao the same and he has the toughest of spots to break through. Asensio is having a shit season but far from finished, though he probably needs a different coach as clearly not learning under Zidane. Same with Jović for whom Zidane made it no easier at all.
Established vets, other than Marcelo, are almost all as good and key to successful team defense. Even Benzema seems better off, but there's no credit to attribute to the player or the coach when you actively choose to lean your offense on a player as average (barely breaks the same numbers as fat and old Suarez).

He's basically returned on the same motivations as Koeman took the seat, despite being better off employed elsewhere - man loves the club.

If you were to rate the 2nd tenure out of 10, it's a solid 6 at least considering squad circumstances + Covid, maybe a 7 considering how good defense was collectively. But not more as many of the same issues persist and he didn't do anything extra to eliminate them.

That's a big difference. But hey, if you don't see it, and you let Poch opportunity slip, that's great man.

They do see it, they're not that daft especially since there's no alternatives on the market.
Hence the chatter.
 
Last edited:

kattanib

Well-known member
I don't see any reason to sack him unless CL is in serious doubt after 20 weeks.
3 CL titles, 2 Liga titles in basically 4 season is way too much success to sack him after 1 bad season, nevermind bad half season.

2 seasons ago they ended 4th or something in La Liga. Shameful
 

kattanib

Well-known member
Madrid were 19 points behind the champions with only 68 points total. If that is not a bad season then what is.

And the season before it they were 17 points behind the champions, and in both cases Barca was the champions and Madrid were third though not sure if Zidane was the manager in both
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
3rd.
And then that same team beat you to the title. Shameful

Just about every Barca fan know the club have been in a mess and heading down wrong path last season and at times even before that. Calling it shameful is not much of a comeback as most probably agree.

Real on other hand it has been getting told how they are 'brilliantly run club' with great squad succession to replace established stars... was never going to be case and truth is now showing.

Even now Real fans are arguing as if Vincius, Odeegard or Mendy are showing to be anything other than average for level top CL need. They may develop further yet but not at any great level for now.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Madrid were 19 points behind the champions with only 68 points total. If that is not a bad season then what is.

Who said it wasn't?

How much worse was yours after if a team you present as being this shit has beaten Barca?

not sure if Zidane was the manager in both

Putting in a lot of effort into this troll aren't you :lol:

Real on other hand it has been getting told how they are 'brilliantly run club' with great squad succession to replace established stars... was never going to be case and truth is now showing.

Depends who it is you hear it from and with regards to what. Financially it is very well run with few bad decisions as per club accounts.

Anything Real fans say now is going to be mostly nonsense. I met some people yesterday calling for an immediate sack and that Zidane accomplished nothing in his 2nd tenure.
 
Last edited:

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Who said it wasn't?

How much worse was yours after if a team you present as being this shit has beaten Barca?



Depends who it is you hear it from and with regards to what. Financially it is very well run with few bad decisions as per club accounts.

Financially in football matters to what you get on pitch and Real have got worse while spending hundreds of millions in past few seasons.

Financially selling Ronaldo for 100m looks good... is it when cant get past CL last 16 without him and the money lost there etc?

They have more big spending to go now as well if want to get to any great level.

Regardless what they have been praised for being well run for his misguided belief the transfers they were making were top class and conveyor belt of young players ready to support the established stars need to be replaced.

Being one of best run clubs claim was never about just the money and even then they have squandered a lot in recent seasons and losing that as well.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Financially in football matters to what you get on pitch and Real have got worse while spending hundreds of millions in past few seasons.

Financially selling Ronaldo for 100m looks good... is it when cant get past CL last 16 without him and the money lost there etc?

They have more big spending to go now as well if want to get to any great level.

Regardless what they have been praised for being well run for his misguided belief there transfers were top class and conveyor belt of young players ready to support the established stars need to be replaced.

No it doesn't. Financially in football matters means living within your means and getting projects done.
Such as the stadium.

For sure they have lots of spending to do.

CR wouldn't have been sold if Bale wasn't given new contract etc. That's the real bad decision. Not the sale of a 34 year old without whom offense wasn't taught to function causing dependencia for 100M

They spent money on risky investments, doesn't mean they are bad. That is still to be determined as most are under 22.

They were always going to get worse in CL R16 without CR and Ramos down the line. Just like Barca with Messi, except y'all treated him like a cult hero and turned your wage ladder upside down for him.

There literally can't be any comparison between the quality of Barca and Madrid in terms of financial management. No matter how much success comes with it.
 

Home of Barca Fans

Top