Penal Madrid

[Trickykid]

They did have a better OVERALL squad last year. I don't think any non-Barca, non-biased fan would oppose that argument.

...

They just couldn't keep up with the marathon that is the league to actually get the title, it doesn't necessarily mean that they were that much worse than Barca.

Wouldn't that imply, though, that they perhaps didn't have that much a better squad after all?

 

[big_man]

They did have a better OVERALL squad last year. I don't think any non-Barca, non-biased fan would oppose that argument.

Their bench is almost an all star bench. They could field a second team that could challenge for the La Liga and probably be in the top 4. Can you say the same about Barca?


The thing that makes Barca so amazing is the midfield and the attack is some of the best in Barca's history. It's almost as if this team is in a league of its own, and it's very hard for Real Madrid, no matter how many Euros they spend, to flat out be better than us.




Yes, results do determine the better squad. Just look at the Clasicos last year. They just couldn't keep up with the marathon that is the league to actually get the title, it doesn't necessarily mean that they were that much worse than Barca.

You're a good poster but come on man, this means NOTHING. We've seen this play out plenty of times, heck, we saw it play out with their galactico that was assembled 4 years ago. Kaka,Benzema, all these star names. All its won them is 1 major title in 4 years.

This season they've bought young players that have been very good off the back of an U21 tournament (which is far off the top level), with the exception of Isco who isn't as good as the key player they replaced him with (Ozil). In general, these players are not as good as the players that they're supposed to be replacing. Modric and Illaramendi or any of their midfielders without Alonso will get dominated by a good number of teams.

You talked about Neymar, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta being out. If you lose 3 of the 4 best players in the world then of course the team will weaken severely. If they lose Ronaldo, Xabi, Isco and Bale who do they have to replace them? Heck, they look think as all hell in attacking midfield now that Ozil and Kaka(rubbish as he was) are gone.

Barca still blow them out of the water in terms of midfield depth, in terms of quality and numbers. Iniesta has been so so this season and no one has noticed because Cesc has filled in perectly. Our captain and best defender was injured for the whole season last season and still won the league by 15 points. The attack is probably about even or they might edge it slightly, but not enough to cover the difference in the midfield.

Their supposedly amazing defensive game has yet to show its class in the 4 years they've set their team up. They concede more than Barca every time, despite the decline in Barca's defensive game over the past couple of years, doesn't say much about their defensive game does it?
I completely disagree about them having a second team that could challenge for La liga when they're first team couldn't challenge for it last season and their first team this season is getting outplayed by decent but not amazing teams. There is absolutely no basis for this, I respect you as a poster enough to know you aren't basing this off "star names"

Madrid are like the Chelsea of La liga,(except they haven't even won as much as Chelsea over the past 4 years). At the start of every season they're going to crush their rival (United) with all their new shiny signings but in the end, United seem to prevail more often than not.

All in all, I think you're underrating the quality of this squad(relative to madrid) if you think they have a better squad. Because that assertion is based on nothing tangible.

 

[ebc_99]

Barca have a better squad no doubt about it. Real Madrid's squad is full of over hyped 'name' players that do not live up to their billing.

A lot of members of this board have an inferiority complex regarding Real Madrid and seem to believe the hype. A good example of this is the ridiculous claim that Real have a far superior defense, I do not know where this comes from because there is no evidence to back this up whatsoever. That is not to say we have a better defence it is just that they are both equally rubbish.

The game against Villarreal showed how week Real's defence is and if Barca get their tactics right they can have a field day, but of course Madrid will park the bus and play on the counter to protect their awful backline.

 

[DonAndres]

Barca have a better squad no doubt about it. Real Madrid's squad is full of over hyped 'name' players that do not live up to their billing.

A lot of members of this board have an inferiority complex regarding Real Madrid and seem to believe the hype. A good example of this is the ridiculous claim that Real have a far superior defense, I do not know where this comes from because there is no evidence to back this up whatsoever. That is not to say we have a better defence it is just that they are both equally rubbish.

The game against Villarreal showed how week Real's defence is and if Barca get their tactics right they can have a field day, but of course Madrid will park the bus and play on the counter to protect their awful backline.

What is with this whole double standards thing with you? So you say Barca have a better squad, yet when they don't play well it's because they "aren't playing to their true ability" or some other excuse. Yet when Madrid don't play well, it's because they are just overhyped "name players" with no talent. Give it a rest. Squad-wise Madrid are clearly better, but Barca is the better in team play since most of the players have been here for ages and are taught a collective tactic. Learn objectivity if you really want to start convincing people that what you say is true.

Madrid don't have a solid defense, yet. They're missing Varane and Marcelo, plus Carvajal still has a lot of learning to do, yet I'm sure you conveniently forgot to notice. It's not only with this whole defensive debate either, it's a basic principle with you. Why is it that you are willing to give Barcelona countless chances to fail at something before picking up a slight criticism, yet when Madrid has a screw-up caused by circumstantial reasons in a single game you find it so easy to exaggerate. Granted Madrid's defense is far from perfect at the moment, but their issues can easily be solved in very little time as their players get back from injury, whereas ours will still linger until we buck up in the transfer window and shift our tactics around.

 

[BrianSwan]

Bold prediction coming up... Even though Bale didn't look great, he is only about 50-60% match fitness and sharpness. But I see Gareth Bale running this Real Madrid team. Watching the game today I was waiting for Bale to pass to Ronaldo when he had a shooting opportunity and it didn't come, Bale just got his shot off as he normally does with a decent effort, none of this team mates gave him any grief, Ronaldo included... Bale also got the ball around 20 more times than Ronaldo before Bale was subbed off and showed signs of his danger to come in La Liga, his team mates showed a willingness to pass him the ball over Ronaldo at times.

I think Bale will out perform Ronaldo, call me crazy, but I see it. I think he may be the bigger threat.

 

[ebc_99]

What is with this whole double standards thing with you? So you say Barca have a better squad, yet when they don't play well it's because they "aren't playing to their true ability" or some other excuse.

This Barca side has more potential than any other in the world so when they have a bad game it usually is because they aren't playing to their true ability.

Yet when Madrid don't play well, it's because they are just overhyped "name players" with no talent. Give it a rest. Squad-wise Madrid are clearly better, but Barca is the better in team play since most of the players have been here for ages and are taught a collective tactic.

Madrid are overhyped, they have won 1 league title in 5 years and 0 European trophies yet people think they are better than Barca. Barca do have a better squad, they have won 4 of the last 5 titles are raining champions and are ahead of Madrid this season. How can you say Real's squad is better, why don't they win la liga more often? Barca are more successful because they have better players all through the squad.

Learn objectivity if you really want to start convincing people that what you say is true.

I am not trying to convince people what I say is true, it is true and if you can't see that on your own then nothing I say is going to change it.

Madrid don't have a solid defense, yet. They're missing Varane and Marcelo, plus Carvajal still has a lot of learning to do, yet I'm sure you conveniently forgot to notice. It's not only with this whole defensive debate either,

Barca have conceded less goals than Real for each the past 5 seasons, Madrid do not have a solid defence yet nor will they unless they buy new defenders.

it's a basic principle with you. Why is it that you are willing to give Barcelona countless chances to fail at something before picking up a slight criticism, yet when Madrid has a screw-up caused by circumstantial reasons in a single game you find it so easy to exaggerate.

I don't give Barca countless chances before I criticise, I just don't go over the top with criticism like a lot of other people do. I criticize the defence and the board both of which deserve it but the midfield and attack have been excellent on the most part and deserve the benefit of the doubt on occasion.

I keep reading posts on this forum saying how bad our defence is and how much superior Reals is, but I don't see how people think Madrid have a better defence there is no evidence to back it up. Statistically and visually Madrids defence is as bad as ours, worse even. I defend the team because there is so many pessimistic people on this board that it is very frustrating to read their comments when they clearly do not know how good they have it.

Granted Madrid's defense is far from perfect at the moment, but their issues can easily be solved in very little time as their players get back from injury, whereas ours will still linger until we buck up in the transfer window and shift our tactics around.

I don't think Real's issues will be solved so easily as you, they have struggled defensively for years just like us and I don't think the absent players will make much difference.

 

[DonAndres]

Once again there's a difference between having the best squad of individual players and having the best collective team, try to understand that. Real have had the better players but they are sometimes too individualist and by far not as connected or fluid as Barca's players in the tactical system. Flashing around a bunch of irrelevant figures like 1 league title in 5 years or more goals conceded is juvenile and superficial. By that logic someone could say that since Madrid have won a majority of the recent Clasico's, Madrid>Barca. That kind of thinking doesn't do anything to prove a point in a valid and related way.

There is pessimism, but the proper response to that isn't to go over the top on the other extreme. I'd say Barca are better than Madrid, but really exaggerating on things like saying Madrid are only overhyped and that our defense can be fixed by a slight tweak in tactics whereas theirs is pure garbage. Try and rationalize it any way you want, but these points are truly biased and only looks at the pros of Barca and the cons of Madrid. A good argument would look at both.

 

[footyfan]

They have been better than us in head to head games for the past 1.5 years. And it's definitely not because 'Barca are not playing to their standards'.

 

[Beast]

Some bizarre posts in the last 2 pages.. thanks for some of the cule's who restore faith in human mind

now for some quick shots

1- Real Madrid didn't have their defensive line since May after Varane injury, yesterday not only Varane but the two LB's were out to injury ... Nacho the CB/RB had to pitch in as a LB
2- Carlo did make a mistake by playing (on top of Nacho ) so many half fit players like Illarramendi who just came back from injury last Monday , Bale who joined the team training on Wednesday , Isco who suffered ankle injury with Spain , CR back from slight muscle injury.. the team looked a lot better when Khedira came in... he didn't anticipate Villarreal excellent pressuring game and he couldn't pull the debut player like Illarramendi early as it would have been a major confidence blow
3- The member who keep talking about our defense.. has to realize after last night game we conceded the same amount of goals as Barca..this season
4- We are so overhyped we managed to field our entire subs and beat Barcelona last year
5- Someone mentioned experience , that we have more experience etc... kindly note our average age is a lot younger than many teams including Barca
6- Defensive performance : Apart from Modric who is doing his new Pirlo role we haven't yet tested playing with a DM .. the players (the defense ) are used to have that in the form of Xabi , it will take them some time as a learning curve to know that they have to hold the players on their own ..while Barca can count on Busquets and still concede a lot

This is a new project with so many tactical changes and new players... quite happy with the result and 2 points is not a big deal when you consider you could have easily dropped them last 2 games against Valencia or last night against Seville
The two giants are a level less than last year which means all the good teams in la liga will provide great competition as we saw last night in the two games of Seville or Villarreal (great to see them back as if they never went down ) or Atletico Madrid in the super cup
This won't be a 100 points la liga for my money

 

[coco1247]

I keep saying I don't expect us to win every match and that it's normal we lose points here and there...but man, I don't want last season repeat itself.
In any case, what Beast and DonAndres said is very true. There were many factors that influenced our game and hopefully we'll get it sorted out soon.
In the mean time, I expect us to flop so hard against Gala next week

 

[Meitux]

I have to say, Bale's attitude last night was much better than Ronaldo's. Even being not tottaly fit he tracked back helping defensively while Ronaldo seemed frustrated in the most of the game.

 

[Beast]

I have to say, Bale's attitude last night was much better than Ronaldo's. Even being not tottaly fit he tracked back helping defensively while Ronaldo seemed frustrated in the most of the game.

Ronaldo will suffer for some time because he is used to using the pace in empty spaces , even with United the formation was suited for his game
He needs to learn the new trick of doing the best in closed spaces (not his best feature he is no Messi ) , What Carlo did was the correct call .. if you are asked whether to sacrifice a formation to build around your star playe or allow a player to do what he please but maintain the formation you believe is suited he chose the second
CR will be a lot less lethal than the last few years i don't see a 40 goal barrier but it will allow others to rise up and share responsibility
But don't ask for CR to come back and help.. Carlo asked him to free role himself with no responsibility ... in a way he will be most dangerous when he is given the ball from the back to run in empty space and score
but i do see him losing pace and that's why i was so determined to sell him this year... i've seen it before and i fear we will see it again with him..

 

[jamrock]

Some bizarre posts in the last 2 pages.. thanks for some of the cule's who restore faith in human mind

now for some quick shots

1- Real Madrid didn't have their defensive line since May after Varane injury, yesterday not only Varane but the two LB's were out to injury ... Nacho the CB/RB had to pitch in as a LB
2- Carlo did make a mistake by playing (on top of Nacho ) so many half fit players like Illarramendi who just came back from injury last Monday , Bale who joined the team training on Wednesday , Isco who suffered ankle injury with Spain , CR back from slight muscle injury.. the team looked a lot better when Khedira came in... he didn't anticipate Villarreal excellent pressuring game and he couldn't pull the debut player like Illarramendi early as it would have been a major confidence blow
3- The member who keep talking about our defense.. has to realize after last night game we conceded the same amount of goals as Barca..this season
4- We are so overhyped we managed to field our entire subs and beat Barcelona last year
5- Someone mentioned experience , that we have more experience etc... kindly note our average age is a lot younger than many teams including Barca
6- Defensive performance : Apart from Modric who is doing his new Pirlo role we haven't yet tested playing with a DM .. the players (the defense ) are used to have that in the form of Xabi , it will take them some time as a learning curve to know that they have to hold the players on their own ..while Barca can count on Busquets and still concede a lot

This is a new project with so many tactical changes and new players... quite happy with the result and 2 points is not a big deal when you consider you could have easily dropped them last 2 games against Valencia or last night against Seville
The two giants are a level less than last year which means all the good teams in la liga will provide great competition as we saw last night in the two games of Seville or Villarreal (great to see them back as if they never went down ) or Atletico Madrid in the super cup
This won't be a 100 points la liga for my money

already said that bit way back, but it has more to do with barca and real having new coaches than anything else though

 

[Beast]

& World cup year & the form in the last 3 years... everything must come to an end

 

[jamrock]

world cup year as little to do with it, jose and pep could still get 95+ points out off these teams, need coaches new ideas, mistakes will be made, adaptation will take time.