Pep Guardiola

[JamDav1982]

Points total=/=gameplay. Often times when we won it was in the liga where we played an overall lethargic match but ended up scraping by with a few goals. It often wasn't lively or continuous, just "sufficient". Messi was vital in a lot of those wins where he took the reigns and changed the look of the game.

Last season under Pep, the players were complacent but the play wasn't as slow and dull. We dropped points carelessly but that was more due to Pep experimenting and injury issues than drop in motivation and dull play. Obviously there was complacency in the team but not as much as this season I'd say.

Messi did that just as much under Guardiola in that last season.

Many games in Pepe last season against poorer teams Barcelona seemed to lack much motivation and try to cruise through games and did not manage it.

Also there were many games the play was slow and dull. An example being the away game to Espanyol where the players barely looked like trying and conceded a late equaliser or the away game to Villareal.

People seem to ignore Peps last season and assume it was the same as the previous years - it wasnt. The team were struggling to get up for games and teams were catching on to their tactics.

Pep tried to combat this by changing to 3-4-3. It didnt work the team looked to have dropped and were more complacent and he left.

The signs were there last season. No doubt.

 

[hardyboy]

Pep Guardiola in 4 games with Bayern Munich: 40 goals, 2 conceded.

 

[DonAndres]

Messi did that just as much under Guardiola in that last season.

Many games in Pepe last season against poorer teams Barcelona seemed to lack much motivation and try to cruise through games and did not manage it.

Also there were many games the play was slow and dull. An example being the away game to Espanyol where the players barely looked like trying and conceded a late equaliser or the away game to Villareal.

People seem to ignore Peps last season and assume it was the same as the previous years - it wasnt. The team were struggling to get up for games and teams were catching on to their tactics.

Pep tried to combat this by changing to 3-4-3. It didnt work the team looked to have dropped and were more complacent and he left.

The signs were there last season. No doubt.

There was complacency, I'm not arguing that. However I feel this season it was much more constant, almost synonymous with our team for a majority of the 2nd half of the season. Results would speak in favor of Tito but our team "adapted" to a style that made it easier to take advantage of shaky liga teams and get away with it despite poor play. Pep's side was playing more poorly due to 3-4-3 and injury issues. They still had motivation which showed more in big games even if they lost whereas this season they just sat back and accepted the rape.

 

[mixer]

Pep Guardiola in 4 games with Bayern Munich: 40 goals, 2 conceded.

They're going to be so hard to beat next season. Maybe even harder than in the previous season. Interesting

 

[JamDav1982]

There was complacency, I'm not arguing that. However I feel this season it was much more constant, almost synonymous with our team for a majority of the 2nd half of the season. Results would speak in favor of Tito but our team "adapted" to a style that made it easier to take advantage of shaky liga teams and get away with it despite poor play. Pep's side was playing more poorly due to 3-4-3 and injury issues. They still had motivation which showed more in big games even if they lost whereas this season they just sat back and accepted the rape.

How can there have been more complacency when they won the league by a record margin?

Peps side playing poorly due to injuries? He never faced anywhere near the injuries that Tito did this year.

Motivation in the biggest games? They got put out of the CL by a poor Chelsea side down to ten men for two thirds of the tie and lost their last two matches against Madrid in two very one sided games at the Camp Nou.

On top of that they never had to deal with playing the biggest games with the injuries Barca had this season.

 

[DonAndres]

How can there have been more complacency when they won the league by a record margin?

Peps side playing poorly due to injuries? He never faced anywhere near the injuries that Tito did this year.

Motivation in the biggest games? They got put out of the CL by a poor Chelsea side down to ten men for two thirds of the tie and lost their last two matches against Madrid in two very one sided games at the Camp Nou.

On top of that they never had to deal with playing the biggest games with the injuries Barca had this season.

This season's side had more injuries but not that much more than Pep's. As I said before, the results are misleading. Almost no one would actually say that this Barcelona side were consistently brilliant enough to have been winning with that margin. They played with a lazier style that took advantage of lower level teams.

I'm not saying they played well in big games in Pep's last season, but they did show more desire. Against Chelsea they fought hard but couldn't finish well, against Madrid the scorelines were much closer. This season we got downed by a less than mighty Milan side initially, barely scraped by PSG due to Messi's brilliance, got humiliated by Madrid 3-1, and harassed by Bayern 7-0. We were much shakier, much less convincing and in the biggest of games we were completely dominated instead of losing despite trying.

 

[JamDav1982]

This season's side had more injuries but not that much more than Pep's. As I said before, the results are misleading. Almost no one would actually say that this Barcelona side were consistently brilliant enough to have been winning with that margin. They played with a lazier style that took advantage of lower level teams.

I'm not saying they played well in big games in Pep's last season, but they did show more desire. Against Chelsea they fought hard but couldn't finish well, against Madrid the scorelines were much closer. This season we got downed by a less than mighty Milan side initially, barely scraped by PSG due to Messi's brilliance, got humiliated by Madrid 3-1, and harassed by Bayern 7-0. We were much shakier, much less convincing and in the biggest of games we were completely dominated instead of losing despite trying.

Pep never faced a team as good as Bayern Munish in his time at the club and certainly never faced a top side without a fit Messi, Busquets, Puyol and Xavi.

You point out scraping by teams with Messi brilliance but that happened often in the big games under Pep also.

Humiliated 3-1 by Madrid? They were just as convincing winners as they were in their last two visits to Barcelona under Pep!

You cant compare games like Bayern 7-0 when Pep never played a team as good as that and without a fit Messi and a rookie center back.

There were countless games in Peps last season where the team dropped points and looked uninterested. More so than this season.

 

[Indignado]

Pep never faced a team as good as Bayern Munish in his time at the club and certainly never faced a top side without a fit Messi, Busquets, Puyol and Xavi.

You point out scraping by teams with Messi brilliance but that happened often in the big games under Pep also.

Humiliated 3-1 by Madrid? They were just as convincing winners as they were in their last two visits to Barcelona under Pep!

You cant compare games like Bayern 7-0 when Pep never played a team as good as that and without a fit Messi and a rookie center back.

There were countless games in Peps last season where the team dropped points and looked uninterested. More so than this season.

Don't be ridiculous. The 1-3 against Madrid at home was much worse than any Clásico we've ever experienced under Pep. We were down 0-3 at home up until extra time. And under Pep, we didn't lose twice in a row at home. We lost in the league (1-2) but drew 2-2 in the Copa.

Plus, Pep not facing the same amount of injuries as Tito did this season... I hope you remember some of our line-ups in the CL 2008-09 or Villa and Afellay both out of action for almost the entire season 2011-12.

 

[Mr Hulot]

I guess I disagree with the most of you, but I don't find our way of playing boring at all. I still quite enjoy seeing Barcelona play and for my taste Barcelona is by far the most entertaining team at the moment. The only game that I felt this feeling that we just passing the ball without a purpose was against Bayern, where it was apparent that we didn't have a clue as to what to do.

 

[JamDav1982]

Don't be ridiculous. The 1-3 against Madrid at home was much worse than any Clásico we've ever experienced under Pep. We were down 0-3 at home up until extra time. And under Pep, we didn't lose twice in a row at home. We lost in the league (1-2) but drew 2-2 in the Copa.

Plus, Pep not facing the same amount of injuries as Tito did this season... I hope you remember some of our line-ups in the CL 2008-09 or Villa and Afellay both out of action for almost the entire season 2011-12.

The line ups of 2008-09 were not as bad as Messi not being fit and they never played a team as good as Bayern Munich.

The classicos under Pep were getting worse and Madrid were understanding how to beat barcelona the season when Pep was still here.

 

[Meitux]

I guess I disagree with the most of you, but I don't find our way of playing boring at all. I still quite enjoy seeing Barcelona play and for my taste Barcelona is by far the most entertaining team at the moment. The only game that I felt this feeling that we just passing the ball without a purpose was against Bayern, where it was apparent that we didn't have a clue as to what to do.

And with Milan in San Siro

 

[Mr Hulot]

And with Milan in San Siro

Yeah you are right. Our second half there was abysmal.

 

[DonAndres]

Pep never faced a team as good as Bayern Munish in his time at the club and certainly never faced a top side without a fit Messi, Busquets, Puyol and Xavi.

You point out scraping by teams with Messi brilliance but that happened often in the big games under Pep also.

Humiliated 3-1 by Madrid? They were just as convincing winners as they were in their last two visits to Barcelona under Pep!

You cant compare games like Bayern 7-0 when Pep never played a team as good as that and without a fit Messi and a rookie center back.

There were countless games in Peps last season where the team dropped points and looked uninterested. More so than this season.

Even if Bayern was a far superior side, 7-0 is a MASSIVE difference than the tight Chelsea games. The difference was in the gameplay as well, they were constantly fighting and attacking versus Chelsea. Against Bayern they looked so dead they could barely get a shot. Not just against Bayern. It was vs PSG, Milan, Madrid, etc. As much as Bayern were better than Chelsea, you simply can't compare a close 3-2 aggregate score with a 7-0 ass-kicking.

And the Madrid games of last season aren't comparable to this one. Last season they were on amazing form and were superior in play. This season they were struggling horribly yet still managed to whoop us 3-1 with our one goal being a late consolation. Even in the first leg when we were playing them with both of their starting CB's missing, we could barely manage a 1-1 draw. In Pep's last season we were struggling, this season they were clearly getting the better of us in Clasico's

 

[JamDav1982]

Even if Bayern was a far superior side, 7-0 is a MASSIVE difference than the tight Chelsea games. The difference was in the gameplay as well, they were constantly fighting and attacking versus Chelsea. Against Bayern they looked so dead they could barely get a shot. Not just against Bayern. It was vs PSG, Milan, Madrid, etc. As much as Bayern were better than Chelsea, you simply can't compare a close 3-2 aggregate score with a 7-0 ass-kicking.

And the Madrid games of last season aren't comparable to this one. Last season they were on amazing form and were superior in play. This season they were struggling horribly yet still managed to whoop us 3-1 with our one goal being a late consolation. Even in the first leg when we were playing them with both of their starting CB's missing, we could barely manage a 1-1 draw. In Pep's last season we were struggling, this season it was pretty

I am not comparing the 7-0 against Bayern to the Chelsea game but showing that the signs of problems in the bigger games has been coming. It was a combination of injuries, terrible refeering decisions that contributed to the over all score line also.

Had Tito been in charge of a team 2-0 up in the CL against ten men and then got knocked out he would have been slaughtered for it.

Madrids problems this season largely came from motivation problems themselves and towards the end the players falling out with Mourinho. In the end they still played the same tactics against Barca and were highly motivated for those games. Barcelona never came up against the lack luster, disjointed Madrid this season. They almost always performed against the top teams other than Dortmund away.

The simple fact remains that Titos first season was more of a success than Peps last. No question.

 

[DonAndres]

I'm not making this a Tito vs Pep thing, not even really pinpointing Tito for it. The decline of our form had definitely started in 11-12 and there was not a whole lot Tito did to add to it, he just let it continue (which is bad, but still not as much as some people are accusing him of).

Madrid played with motivation against us but it was our lack of imposition and domination that gave them a way to fight back despite having several players who were out of form and not performing. Di Maria went from being a disappointing oaf to making Puyol look like an idiot in the space of a single game. Same deal with Ozil, Benzema, etc. Granted they were motivated to beat us but doesn't it bother you that they could so easily go from looking like a circus during the season to a top team against us in one game? That we were so easy to topple that they could just get up one day and be a little extra motivated, then go on to whoop us 3-1 despite a struggling campaign? It shows that if any team really felt like it and played a little more motivated, they could easily win/draw with us. And this was shown multiple times vs Sociedad, Valencia, Celta, Athletic, Madrid, Milan, Bayern.

At least in 11-12, if teams fought hard we fought back. Win or lose, we were still very difficult to beat. Screw-ups with tactical experiments and shuffling around the lineup due to injuries, combined with Madrid having a kickass season made things look worse than they were in comparison with this season. However it was not a simple "I feel like beating Barcelona today" type of deal. If we lost, it was hard fought and not accepted. If we played bad, the players still had tried and done as much as they could yet couldn't find an end product. There were complacent games and that caused some embarrassing slip-ups, but it wasn't as prominent as this season.