Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
Considering that they won a World Cup and 2 Euro - Yes they might very well win the CL without Messi!
Pep Guardiola
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Considering that they won a World Cup and 2 Euro - Yes they might very well win the CL without Messi!
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Man United 2009 in CL final (w/Ballon d'or CR7, prime Rooney, and rio-vidic-evra, VDS) and Real Madrid 2011 in CL semis were stronger than any national team Spain faced. Messi was the difference in both (although it could be argued Xavi was nearly just as important in the 09 final).
Messi was also THE difference in Bayern CL semis 2015. 2 goals, 1 assist at camp nou. Served up both goals on the counter at the Allianz.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
True.
But my point with Messi was:
About Xavi-Iniesta in Spain, they never had to play against a World class team WITH Messi.
Spain vs rest of the world was: Spain vs 3-4 good teams. But none of those teams, neither Spain, neither others=had Messi.
Messi's team was like Villareal.
Basically, Barca vs Villareal.
My point again, imagine if Messi was let's say from Germany or France, one of world class NT teams.
Do you think that Spain would win all those trophies in 2008-2012 against let's say France, with 20 world class footballer, plus with Messi in attack?
So, my point again, it is hard to really measure how good Xavi-Iniesta alone were WITHOUT Messi.
Since in Barca they played together and they were overpowered.
And in NT teams, Messi played with 10 monkeys in a team against a well-glued Spanish team.
So, imo, even though it is awesome to have Xavi and Iniesta in a team, it is hard to tell whether those two alone, without Messi (or if Messi played for let's say Real) would have brought CL titles.
Messi was by far the biggest factor.
Just like CR7 in Real.
Modric, Kroos and Isco can't win shit today with CR7's magic upfront.
Nothanks
New member
People also do not understand that the Spain team was incredibly stacked
Iker in his prime is a top 5 keeper.. in some peoples mind he is top 3
Puyol, Ramos, Pique
Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets
David Villa, Prime Torres
these players were contenders for top 2 in each position in their respective league
Germany and France yes when they won had a stacked team but not in comparison to Spains 2010 team..
Spains B team in 2010 could of even pushed most teams into a world cup victory.
that spain team lacked nothing, they had physically in bench + starting lineup
they had about 5 different captains and a healthy amount of youngsters coming up.
no one had conflict with each other, no drama nothing.. it was a near perfect team.
Iker in his prime is a top 5 keeper.. in some peoples mind he is top 3
Puyol, Ramos, Pique
Xabi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets
David Villa, Prime Torres
these players were contenders for top 2 in each position in their respective league
Germany and France yes when they won had a stacked team but not in comparison to Spains 2010 team..
Spains B team in 2010 could of even pushed most teams into a world cup victory.
that spain team lacked nothing, they had physically in bench + starting lineup
they had about 5 different captains and a healthy amount of youngsters coming up.
no one had conflict with each other, no drama nothing.. it was a near perfect team.
Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
We cannot say that none of the national teams were good for 6 straight years to be able to defeat Spain NT. For example, Germany were quite stacked in 2008! Just like how we can't say that Argentina were shit all the time either. At the end of the day, they still did go to the WC final and Copa America final (twice) in a span of 4 years.
To say that Xavi Iniesta would not have achieved stuff without Messi at club level is just not giving them their due credit. If a mid field of Mordic and Kroos can make a CL hat trick with CXR7 of all the people, who is the most over-rated player when it comes to productivity - Xaviesta could very well have done some thing like that or even better with say a Ribery or a Hazard with them if not Messi!
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Messigician
Senior Member
He's actually f****** insufferable in the media. He's so fake with all his "humble man" comments you can see why people like Zlatan had a problem with him just not a genuine person at all.
utility73
Senior Member
Why? Spurs scored from two horrible individual mistakes by an otherwise decent Laporte plus a corner. Otherwise Spurs could not create much. Also in the first leg they did not create any danger with the halfway decent chance by Son being the exception.
Big mistake from Pep was playing to conservatively in the away leg increasing luck factor in favor of the Spurs.
Noone is perfect, least of all Zlatan. But it is true Pep acts often and looks fake in return.
Fake club like City thus suits him now.
Obiaseti
New member
There's a big difference. He lost but at least city are good to watch, have much better movement and teamwork in general and always play on the front foot. We just got decimated even after going in with a 3-0 advantage and did it while playing poorly. When the journey and the destination are bad something has to change. Pep will certainly improve us but he's not returning now. If he does first thing he'd probably do is get rid of 70% of our players including a few from his last stint here.
El MeSSiaS
Member
Legend! best manager in our history. That some people dare to even mention him and Valverde in same sentence is insulting
“You give credit for the titles and how huge our rival is. In my career as a manager, I played against incredible sides and there are two that were ‘wow’.
“One is the Barcelona of Luis Enrique with Neymar, (Lionel) Messi and (Luis) Suarez in front. The other is this Liverpool. I think they’re the best two sides I’ve faced as a manager.
“One is the Barcelona of Luis Enrique with Neymar, (Lionel) Messi and (Luis) Suarez in front. The other is this Liverpool. I think they’re the best two sides I’ve faced as a manager.
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