Temptation
Well-known member
Maybe the African curse people talk about is true?
Pep Guardiola
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Lack of depth cost City more than anything.
They massively missed Walker in first leg when had to turn to likes of Fernandinho to play RB and then in second leg him coming off weakens both RB and LB.
That is not Pep when spends so much money on attacking players and has holes like that in squad.
BBZ with usual essays that are not relevant to City going out or way Xavi plays. Usual.
They massively missed Walker in first leg when had to turn to likes of Fernandinho to play RB and then in second leg him coming off weakens both RB and LB.
That is not Pep when spends so much money on attacking players and has holes like that in squad.
BBZ with usual essays that are not relevant to City going out or way Xavi plays. Usual.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
2014: Real:Bayern 5:0 (1:0a, 4:0)
2015: Barca:Bayern 5:3 (3:0a, 2:3)
2016: Atletico:Bayern 2:2 (1:0a, 1:2)
2017: Monaco 6:6 (3:5, 3:1a)
2018: Liverpool 5:1 (3:0a, 2:1)
2019: Tottenham 4:4 (1:0, 3:4)
2020: Lyon 3:1 neutral
2021: Chelsea 1:0 neutral
2022: Real 6:5 (3:4, 3:1a)
City conceded 37 goals in 16 matches.
That is 2,3 goals per match.
In these 9 seasons, in these key CL ties, these are his results on AWAY/neutral matches:
9 matches = 0 wins, 0 draws, 9 defeats, goals ratio: 3:19 against
Also, Pep's results in the 2nd legs on these key ties:
9 matches: number of clean sheets = 0
Goals ratio 13:22 against.
For a comaprison:
2022: Liverpool conceded 7 in 6 matches, Real conceded 11 in 6 matches
2021: Chelsea conceded 2 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 4 in 7 matches)
2020: Bayern conceded 3 goals in 5 KO matches (Pep conceded 5 in 3 matches)
2019: Liverpool conceded 5 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 6 in 4 matches)
2018: Real conceded 9 in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 7 in 4 matches)
2017: Real conceded 8 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 6 in 2 matches)
2016: Real conceded 3 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 8 in 6 matches)
2015: Barca conceded 6 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 9 in 6 matches)
2014: Real conceded 5 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 8 goals in 6 matches)
2013: Bayern conceded 4 goals in 7 KO matches
All Pep's AWAY CL KO matches after Barca (in quarters and semis):
2014: Man Utd 1:1, Real 1:0
2015: Porto 3:1, Barca 3:0
2016: Benfica 2:2, Atletico 1:0
2017: -- lost 3:1 to Lyon in round of 16
2018: Liverpool 3:0
2019: Tottenham 1:0
2020: Lyon 3:1
2021: Dortmund 1:2, Psg 1:2, Chelsea 1:0
2022: Atletico 0:0, Real 3:1
Barca (at Barca he was bad even in a round of 16):
2009: Lyon 1:1, Bayern 1:1, Chelsea 1:1, Man Utd 0:2
2010: Stuttgart 1:1, Arsenal 2:2, Inter 3:1
2011: Arsenal 2:1, Shakhtar 0:1, Real 0:2, Man Utd 1:3
2012: Leverkusen 1:3, Milan 0:0, Chelsea 1:0
At City, on Away games (in quarters and semis) he has ** I'll remove finals because that is a neutral ground. My idea is that Pep and Pep's type of players are particularly bad and scared when they play on a TRUE away KO match and NOT on a neutral ground.
8 defeats
3 draws
2 wins
= 13 matches, managed to keep a clean sheet once out of 13 matches (vs Atletico this year)
At Barca, without finals:
3 wins
6 draws
3 defeats
= 12 matches, managed to keep a clean sheet 3 times out of 12
His total from these two areas mentioned above:
11 defeats, 9 draws, 5 wins
But in order to make stats more reliable, I will remove round of 16 and finals.
So, let's check ONLY quarters and semis in whole Pep's career:
10 defeates
7 draws
4 wins
= so, 21 match and only 4 wins for Barca, Bayern and City in all of these years
10:23 at City and 8:8 at Barca.
Total: 21 match, 4 wins and 18:31 goals ratio
Now, the serious questions: are you guys REALLY, REALLY sure that his style/system is the most suitable for sudden death CL matches?
Since:
1. his overall score is quite shit
2. defending of his teams is quite shit
3. his stats on true away games are beyond shit (note that the only time when his choir boys played well was in 2021 season when matches were played without a home crowd. So, NO HOME crowd, no pressure in 2021 = and City was doing well on away matches. Once when a hostile home crowd returned, Pep's teams are crumbling under pressure as the easiest bet in the world). If we remove COVID's 2021 season without home fans, Pep is then at 18 matches and only 2 wins in his whole CL (quarters and semis) career, with the only two wins coming against mighty Shakthar 0:1 (2011, the first match already ended 5:1 for Barca so there was zero pressure and the tie was dead) and Messi's one man magic 0:2 in 2011 vs Real Madrid.
People will get angry because Pep and his football are considered as pillars of Barca, but wouldn't you expect slightly more from his football if it is as good and as efficient as some claim?
What about that famous "if executed properly, no one can stop Pep's football?"
It seems that absolutely every single in CL KO matches on away match with some pressure can totally neutralize and win against Pep's football.
For example, check Rijkaard's stats under the same criteria:
2005: -- lost to Chelsea in a round of 16 4:2
2006: Chelsea 1:2, Benfica 0:0, Milan 0:1, Arsenal 1:2
2007: Liverpool 0:1
2008: Celtic 2:3, Schalke 0:1, Man Utd 1:0
Managed to get wins or keep clean sheets in more than half of matches.
Yeah, different era, but Rijkaard was more cautious and not playing overly attacking Pep' football.
I made some stats a few years ago, Pep is the worst Barca coach on away games among Rijkaard, Pep, Cruijff, Lucho and EV.
Guess who is the 2nd worst? Cruijff.
Both had a ratio of wins between 10-20% in away KO matches.
What is their similarity? = they both played football coming from the same source = Dutch total (attacking) football.
Should I dare to say that Netherlands is the NT team with the highest amount of quarters, semis and finals defeats in a history?
So, maybe there is some pattern?
That football is beautiful and efficient against minor teams but highly inefficient in 50:50 high pressure KO matches.
2015: Barca:Bayern 5:3 (3:0a, 2:3)
2016: Atletico:Bayern 2:2 (1:0a, 1:2)
2017: Monaco 6:6 (3:5, 3:1a)
2018: Liverpool 5:1 (3:0a, 2:1)
2019: Tottenham 4:4 (1:0, 3:4)
2020: Lyon 3:1 neutral
2021: Chelsea 1:0 neutral
2022: Real 6:5 (3:4, 3:1a)
City conceded 37 goals in 16 matches.
That is 2,3 goals per match.
In these 9 seasons, in these key CL ties, these are his results on AWAY/neutral matches:
9 matches = 0 wins, 0 draws, 9 defeats, goals ratio: 3:19 against
Also, Pep's results in the 2nd legs on these key ties:
9 matches: number of clean sheets = 0
Goals ratio 13:22 against.
For a comaprison:
2022: Liverpool conceded 7 in 6 matches, Real conceded 11 in 6 matches
2021: Chelsea conceded 2 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 4 in 7 matches)
2020: Bayern conceded 3 goals in 5 KO matches (Pep conceded 5 in 3 matches)
2019: Liverpool conceded 5 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 6 in 4 matches)
2018: Real conceded 9 in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 7 in 4 matches)
2017: Real conceded 8 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 6 in 2 matches)
2016: Real conceded 3 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 8 in 6 matches)
2015: Barca conceded 6 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 9 in 6 matches)
2014: Real conceded 5 goals in 7 KO matches (Pep conceded 8 goals in 6 matches)
2013: Bayern conceded 4 goals in 7 KO matches
All Pep's AWAY CL KO matches after Barca (in quarters and semis):
2014: Man Utd 1:1, Real 1:0
2015: Porto 3:1, Barca 3:0
2016: Benfica 2:2, Atletico 1:0
2017: -- lost 3:1 to Lyon in round of 16
2018: Liverpool 3:0
2019: Tottenham 1:0
2020: Lyon 3:1
2021: Dortmund 1:2, Psg 1:2, Chelsea 1:0
2022: Atletico 0:0, Real 3:1
Barca (at Barca he was bad even in a round of 16):
2009: Lyon 1:1, Bayern 1:1, Chelsea 1:1, Man Utd 0:2
2010: Stuttgart 1:1, Arsenal 2:2, Inter 3:1
2011: Arsenal 2:1, Shakhtar 0:1, Real 0:2, Man Utd 1:3
2012: Leverkusen 1:3, Milan 0:0, Chelsea 1:0
At City, on Away games (in quarters and semis) he has ** I'll remove finals because that is a neutral ground. My idea is that Pep and Pep's type of players are particularly bad and scared when they play on a TRUE away KO match and NOT on a neutral ground.
8 defeats
3 draws
2 wins
= 13 matches, managed to keep a clean sheet once out of 13 matches (vs Atletico this year)
At Barca, without finals:
3 wins
6 draws
3 defeats
= 12 matches, managed to keep a clean sheet 3 times out of 12
His total from these two areas mentioned above:
11 defeats, 9 draws, 5 wins
But in order to make stats more reliable, I will remove round of 16 and finals.
So, let's check ONLY quarters and semis in whole Pep's career:
10 defeates
7 draws
4 wins
= so, 21 match and only 4 wins for Barca, Bayern and City in all of these years
10:23 at City and 8:8 at Barca.
Total: 21 match, 4 wins and 18:31 goals ratio
Now, the serious questions: are you guys REALLY, REALLY sure that his style/system is the most suitable for sudden death CL matches?
Since:
1. his overall score is quite shit
2. defending of his teams is quite shit
3. his stats on true away games are beyond shit (note that the only time when his choir boys played well was in 2021 season when matches were played without a home crowd. So, NO HOME crowd, no pressure in 2021 = and City was doing well on away matches. Once when a hostile home crowd returned, Pep's teams are crumbling under pressure as the easiest bet in the world). If we remove COVID's 2021 season without home fans, Pep is then at 18 matches and only 2 wins in his whole CL (quarters and semis) career, with the only two wins coming against mighty Shakthar 0:1 (2011, the first match already ended 5:1 for Barca so there was zero pressure and the tie was dead) and Messi's one man magic 0:2 in 2011 vs Real Madrid.
People will get angry because Pep and his football are considered as pillars of Barca, but wouldn't you expect slightly more from his football if it is as good and as efficient as some claim?
What about that famous "if executed properly, no one can stop Pep's football?"
It seems that absolutely every single in CL KO matches on away match with some pressure can totally neutralize and win against Pep's football.
For example, check Rijkaard's stats under the same criteria:
2005: -- lost to Chelsea in a round of 16 4:2
2006: Chelsea 1:2, Benfica 0:0, Milan 0:1, Arsenal 1:2
2007: Liverpool 0:1
2008: Celtic 2:3, Schalke 0:1, Man Utd 1:0
Managed to get wins or keep clean sheets in more than half of matches.
Yeah, different era, but Rijkaard was more cautious and not playing overly attacking Pep' football.
I made some stats a few years ago, Pep is the worst Barca coach on away games among Rijkaard, Pep, Cruijff, Lucho and EV.
Guess who is the 2nd worst? Cruijff.
Both had a ratio of wins between 10-20% in away KO matches.
What is their similarity? = they both played football coming from the same source = Dutch total (attacking) football.
Should I dare to say that Netherlands is the NT team with the highest amount of quarters, semis and finals defeats in a history?
So, maybe there is some pattern?
That football is beautiful and efficient against minor teams but highly inefficient in 50:50 high pressure KO matches.
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FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
All the coins for BBZ. Hail the new master.
City is officially Old Barca now. Mentally beaten for years and their playing levels will be dropping. Not sure if even Haaland can save them after these beatings.
"In these 9 seasons, in these key CL ties, these are his results on AWAY/neutral matches:
9 matches = 0 wins, 0 draws, 9 defeats, goals ratio: 3:19 against"
OUCH.
City is officially Old Barca now. Mentally beaten for years and their playing levels will be dropping. Not sure if even Haaland can save them after these beatings.
"In these 9 seasons, in these key CL ties, these are his results on AWAY/neutral matches:
9 matches = 0 wins, 0 draws, 9 defeats, goals ratio: 3:19 against"
OUCH.
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FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Horatio
You're welcome
How? Didnt Pep win in Bernabeu 2 years ago?
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
He is talking about key matches(or ties City lost)? Maybe didn't count that. Looks better that way.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Won in a round of 16, I have excluded round of 16 because in lots of years teams get weak opponents in the round of 16.
Btw, later in 2020, after winning against RM, City with the most expensive squad in the world lost 3:1 to Lyon led by mighty Depay, Toko Ekambi, Cornet and Dubois.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Peps story in CL is far from finished.
Wait and see.
They need to balance squad a bit better but are one of two best sides in Europe and small margins at moment.
Tactically Pep had the games handled fine v Real and will win more than loses playing like that.
Wait and see.
They need to balance squad a bit better but are one of two best sides in Europe and small margins at moment.
Tactically Pep had the games handled fine v Real and will win more than loses playing like that.
Temptation
Well-known member
Whether it's fair or not, the buck stops with the manager.
They also get disproportionate amount of credit when they win trophies.
Hardly Pep's tactical genius when Kompany of all people scored a long range banger outta nowhere to win them the league against us.
Part and parcel of the managerial game- these lil margins. These minute details determine whether a manager will be hailed or lambasted for a season. That's how brutal it is at this elite level.
The lil margins have become a pattern against Pep in the CL.
If we give Real Madrid so much credit for bossing these margins(rightly so), by the same token you have to question a manager with all the resources in the world always having these lil things go against him in these crucial moments.
Not having any of this, mate.
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Sounding like a broken record, but you see that bench of Man City and it is ridiculous. The depth there should leave Madrid without a chance.
Pep was a little too calculative in the approach to the game. Won't say it cost them, but maybe they should have tried to put Madrid to the sword a little bit more. Esp when they went in front which was at the time against the run of the play.
Pep was a little too calculative in the approach to the game. Won't say it cost them, but maybe they should have tried to put Madrid to the sword a little bit more. Esp when they went in front which was at the time against the run of the play.
jamrock
Senior Member
Given what happened in the first leg. He handled the game perfect tactically, had a 2 goal lead with 7 minutes left in the match & Mendy saved Madrid from going down 3.
I don't know how anyone with eyes can't see that.
Can't believe me & jamdav are the only ones who sees how much of an impact subbing walker had on their defense, that was the key moment that lost that tie.
I don't know how anyone with eyes can't see that.
Can't believe me & jamdav are the only ones who sees how much of an impact subbing walker had on their defense, that was the key moment that lost that tie.
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