Philippe Coutinho

[serghei]

Coutinho failed to make some basic plays here in his second season.
Last year he played mostly as an LAM. He had the freedom to move to midfield as he wanted and cut inside. Still done awful.
Never mind he has done well in his 1st few months here as LM/RM.
This was were he played most of his career, he played as a pure no 10 (a position that almost doesn't exist in modern football btw) only in his last 6 months with Liverpool.
May be EV isn't the right coach to deal with him, but to attribute his failure to tactical or positional reasons is far from accurate

He played great at Liverpool. If he plays great at Bayern too, it's obvious the problem is with Valverde. Still too early to tell though. He had some great games in his first season with us too.

And it's not innacurate to attribute his problems with the tactical setup of Valverde's Barcelona. We're talking about a very static team here. Barcelona under Valverde has serious off the ball movement problems. This means there are few passing options, problems with generating dynamic attacking situations, difficulty in providing support for players on the ball.

 

[Lapi]

He played great at Liverpool. If he plays great at Bayern too, it's obvious the problem is with Valverde. Still too early to tell though. He had some great games in his first season with us too.

And it's not innacurate to attribute his problems with the tactical setup of Valverde's Barcelona. We're talking about a very static team here. Barcelona under Valverde has serious off the ball movement problems. This means there are few passing options, problems with generating dynamic attacking situations, difficulty in providing support for players on the ball.

Well said.
Good footballers don't suddenly forget how to play, regardless how many times the shit-flop-shit-flop choir repeats that day by day.

Off-ball movement is naturally a huge problem but it is understandable for a certain extent.
The team is instructed to keep possession, never to lose the ball, that's why (specially the forwards) are often reluctant to move too much without the ball, because they know chances are very good they will not get the ball eventually.
That takes away the zeal, the enthusiasm and it is definitely due to the non-existent tactics and the static setup, where there are just posts without creative tactical elements.

 

[Devils]

Stunning player.

 

[cris29]

Maybe im wrong, but a big part of the reason he failed is our lack of movement. Nobody upfront makes runs anymore. Pedro, Villa, Alexis, and Neymar always made those great runs to open up the defense. What i'd give to have even current Pedro back for someone to run behind a defense.

He played with Messi, and Suarez. Messi drops deep nowadays, and Suarez can barely run.

 

[serghei]

Maybe im wrong, but a big part of the reason he failed is our lack of movement. Nobody upfront makes runs anymore. Pedro, Villa, Alexis, and Neymar always made those great runs to open up the defense. What i'd give to have even current Pedro back for someone to run behind a defense.

He played with Messi, and Suarez. Messi drops deep nowadays, and Suarez can barely run.

Coutinho's fault - weak mentality
Club fault - not providing an efficient platform to get the best out of him.

Players without strong mentalities can have great career but the club has to provide a working platform in order for the player to be comfortable, motivated and confident, things which he inherently isn't. On the other hand, strong willed players can play great in not so great systems because they have this asset, which is their work ethic and hunger to prove themselves. So they work more and eventually, even without the proper structure, they pull through in the end and they shine.

In the case of Coutinho and Barcelona it was a failure because both the components were missing. Mentally weak players under incompetent managers and faulty systems almost never work.

 

[Respekt_III]

He was continuously making terrible decisions in game, He wasn't releasing the pass early enough or not at all usually preferring to try his one signature dribble and losing the ball in doing so. He also became fairly selfish and one of his strongest assets (shooting) failed him due to insufficient space and time.

Basically:
Static players with little to no movement
slow build up play
Little to no width pace etc with coutinho, suarez, messi
lack of athleticism across the side
poor/non existent/risk averse tactics


All these issues (and more cbf elaborating) coupled with his lack of physicality and fitness lead to him under-performing for us. I will always continue to maintain that he was severely over priced and most definitely not world class.

Its actually infuriating that the dumb fucks paid so much for him and dembele...

 

[khaled_a_d]

So what do you attribute it to? And how to you explain his performance compared to Liverpool and Bayern?

I said it during last season, I would like to see how good he is with his next team (currently Bayern) and I mean in a full season not a small sample size against teams that are the level of some Segunda teams. Because he he had good games early on with us, and also I remember how many was roasting Barca for selling Cesc in his 1st half season with Chelsea (mostly neutral fans, not Barca fans) so time and consistency are huge factors.

If he does great with Bayern, then it might be a coach problem but I won't attribute it to the position he is playing. EV gave him all the opportunities, gave him freedom to play in his favored area too. He still sucked. Serghi is making fair poinst about us being static, though he looked better in Liverpool's Rodgers last year. Which was awful times for that team.

He played great at Liverpool. If he plays great at Bayern too, it's obvious the problem is with Valverde. Still too early to tell though. He had some great games in his first season with us too.

And it's not innacurate to attribute his problems with the tactical setup of Valverde's Barcelona. We're talking about a very static team here. Barcelona under Valverde has serious off the ball movement problems. This means there are few passing options, problems with generating dynamic attacking situations, difficulty in providing support for players on the ball.

All fair points

 

[Marshall D Teach]

The problem with Coutinho was that he's a number 10 which means he occupies the same spaces as Messi. You can't play the two together.

 

[Sterlingfan2000]

He was very happy after the game , enjoying his teammates. I'm happy for him

 

[xxxxxx]

Valverde was doing his best to destroy his career by playing as a winger.

 

[EdmondDantes]

Cute little assist.

 

[serghei]

Just so I get this straight, our squad is so terrible, that our reject Coutinho is a clear starter at probably the most in form team in Europe?

 

[Vilarrubi]

Just so I get this straight, our squad is so terrible, that our reject Coutinho is a clear starter at probably the most in form team in Europe?

And was one of the worst players for us....

All points to Valverde, anyone who says different is trolling or in denial.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Just so I get this straight, our squad is so terrible, that our reject Coutinho is a clear starter at probably the most in form team in Europe?

Coutinho had little to do with Bayern's attacking prowess today other than that last assist to Lewandowski though. In the first half he was pretty invisible as Bayern's attack went through the wings and largely bypassed him. He was better in the second half but still quite slow in his decision making, always had a few more touches than he should before releasing the ball and he had many back passes. He always attampted to shoot from the position directly diagonally from the goal outside the penalty box but was always getting dispossessed and stopped. He is just not mobile enough and he clearly can't dribble.

Valverde yes but it is not like Coutinho doesn't have his own problems.

 

[George_Costanza]

The problem with Coutinho was that he's a number 10 which means he occupies the same spaces as Messi. You can't play the two together.

Everything has to do with the coach tactics and how he uses his players. Iniesta didn't have any issue playing along Messi occupying same space as Coutinho's Liverpool.

Coutinho at Liverpool

Coutinho at Barcelona

Messi

Iniesta