Quique Setien

[DonAndres]

What is the alternative?

Just leave Setien until after CL when it is clear will fail or try something different and give it time?

I dont think Pimienta in himself would be the motivatinf factor but the players may buy in to him short term to prove a point about Setien.

Man Utd players did same with Solskjaer.

It is no lose really as Barca are fucked the way things stand anyway.

Well there isn't an alternative. Setien's death sentence is well beyond sealed. Them saying he'll be fired "if he loses to Atletico" is basically just saying it's already decided he's gone, they just need a bad/notable loss to have a public justification for it.

And there's no choice but to do that now, given he's already completely lost the dressing room and now the rumors of the upper brass losing their faith in him undermines him further.

All in all, I agree that Setien should be sacked immediately and Pimienta given time to try to salvage whatever he can. I just think that even though it's the right call, the upside is very limited for the team in the near future. There's not much to do except wait until someone comes around to get the ball rolling on a real, complete rebuild.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well there isn't an alternative. Setien's death sentence is well beyond sealed. Them saying he'll be fired "if he loses to Atletico" is basically just saying it's already decided he's gone, they just need a bad/notable loss to have a public justification for it.

And there's no choice but to do that now, given he's already completely lost the dressing room and now the rumors of the upper brass losing their faith in him undermines him further.

All in all, I agree that Setien should be sacked immediately and Pimienta given time to try to salvage whatever he can. I just think that even though it's the right call, the upside is very limited for the team in the near future. There's not much to do except wait until someone comes around to get the ball rolling on a real, complete rebuild.

Complete rebuild wont happen until the old players move on.

Sad state of affairs but that is where it is at.

Likes of Puyol, Xavi and Masch did not care for reputations and would put Pique, Messi etc in their place if needed.

Club lacks leaders from top to bottom and they will all see it out together until the players chose to move on.

Even likes of Font will promise the world but wont dare run on card to rebuild. He knows the player power and impact it can have.

 

[mc_lovin]

Complete rebuild wont happen until the old players move on.

A complete rebuild is nonsense. It sounds good for fans, but is comletely unrealistic. It will always be a process. If we get a striker and a CB we would have done well.

 

[DonAndres]

Complete rebuild wont happen until the old players move on.

Sad state of affairs but that is where it is at.

Likes of Puyol, Xavi and Masch did not care for reputations and would put Pique, Messi etc in their place if needed.

Club lacks leaders from top to bottom and they will all see it out together until the players chose to move on.

Even likes of Font will promise the world but wont dare run on card to rebuild. He knows the player power and impact it can have.

If we get humiliated once more in Europe (I think it's like 80-90% likely we've already lost La liga) then the ball might well finally be in the players court as far as carrying the weight of the failure. So far, the public and the media have been able to push it onto EV and Setien or whoever while saying that even though the players failed, they deserve more chances. But another big humiliation might completely remove the shine that guys like Suarez/Busi/Rakitic/Alba are "veterans who've won everything and are still among the best if handled correctly".

If they lose the ability to confidently say "we are the veterans with all the accolades, we know best how to win" then they may finally lose their status as indispensable heavyweights. That's the first step in being able to sell them or at least firmly put them on the bench.

We've failed for like 4 years in a row followed by guys like Suarez, Pique, Busquets making comments that it was the players fault that we performed so badly and that they are better than that. Well if it is their fault, why are they not held accountable? Why are they still starters? They are willing to admit it was their fault, but not willing to accept that they shouldn't be untouchable anymore.

Maybe a trophyless season this year will put enough pressure on them that they don't feel safe any longer acting as untouchables. At least for a few of them, if not the whole group.

 

[JamDav1982]

If we get humiliated once more in Europe (I think it's like 80-90% likely we've already lost La liga) then the ball might well finally be in the players court as far as carrying the weight of the failure. So far, the public and the media have been able to push it onto EV and Setien or whoever while saying that even though the players failed, they deserve more chances. But another big humiliation might completely remove the shine that guys like Suarez/Busi/Rakitic/Alba are "veterans who've won everything and are still among the best if handled correctly".

If they lose the ability to confidently say "we are the veterans with all the accolades, we know best how to win" then they may finally lose their status as indispensable heavyweights. That's the first step in being able to sell them or at least firmly put them on the bench.

We've failed for like 4 years in a row followed by guys like Suarez, Pique, Busquets making comments that it was the players fault that we performed so badly and that they are better than that. Well if it is their fault, why are they not held accountable? Why are they still starters? They are willing to admit it was their fault, but not willing to accept that they shouldn't be untouchable anymore.

Maybe a trophyless season this year will put enough pressure on them that they don't feel safe any longer acting as untouchables. At least for a few of them, if not the whole group.

There is just no way the board do that this summer when have one year left and I doubt the next board run on an overhaul either.

They are both terrified of upsetting Messi and older core.

Current board will try to get amigos back on side and a coach that pleases them to try and see out final year then next board wont take risk of running on card that amigos can reject.

 

[Alik]

We saw that kind of resurgence in motivation when Zidane came to RM (both times) but that's the kind of case where the players have a notable degree of respect for the coach coming in. Don't know if they can break out of their disillusion seeing a B team guy who they don't know come in and take over.

Maybe if it was someone like Lucho returning, they'd be galvanized in a significant way.

I agree though that it's way better to sack Setien now and give Pimienta some time than to delay it until right before CL. I just don't know if Pimienta can put the team in the right state of mind given all the toxicity at the club that exists at every level.

The players are closer to the situation and see the fire better than we do. They've seen how aimless we've been in handling EV and Setien, how Abidal is on the verge of getting sacked, how several board members have been resigning this past year. The situation is bad at all levels and they are probably entrenched deeply in their lackluster attitude.

Even though a lot of this dysfunction is of their own making, they too probably need to see good leadership or potentially inspiring decisions to be uplifted into trying harder.

Di Mateo won the CL as a caretaker

 

[serghei]

There is just no way the board do that this summer when have one year left and I doubt the next board run on an overhaul either.

They are both terrified of upsetting Messi and older core.

Current board will try to get amigos back on side and a coach that pleases them to try and see out final year then next board wont take risk of running on card that amigos can reject.

They will do it if the next season is a train-wreck. They'd have to be the ultimate idiots to let 35 year old Messi and Suarez run things in the team. Extremely disappointed in Messi tbh, he's tarnishing his legacy.

I also think they will follow the same path next season. Messi, Suarez, and the veteran clan running things and us having a puppet manager that tries to offer the illusion that he is somewhat in charge.

 

[snowy]

his legacy is made of Adamantium. Even a graphene spear couldn't scratch it

Lucky Setien and Sarabia have good impulse control otherwise we could've seen a pitch brawl between staff and players the other day.

Messi street dissed them bad. Zlatan would've lost it and benched him on his lap like a ventriloquist

 

[serghei]

Wow, the majority of the comments in Sport and Mundo Deportivo are supportive of Sarabia in the incident with Messi.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Setien is not the best manager however we are beyond savable or salvageable at this point with these senior players such as Messi, Suarez and Pique etc. blatantly signaling to the world that they are the ones who run the dressing home and dictate how we should play.

Messi & Co etc. probably don't like to be told to work hard during training and our games. They probably don't like the higher intensity Setien brought. They probably prefer the laid-back and lazy approach of Valverde and that was why they didn't want him to go.

As long as the senior players are here we will remain on this hopeless path.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Wow, the majority of the comments in Sport and Mundo Deportivo are supportive of Sarabia in the incident with Messi.

Glad to see that even the local fans are starting to see the bigger picture.

 

[Birdy]

Messi & Co etc. probably don't like to be told to work hard during training and our games. They probably don't like the higher intensity Setien brought. They probably prefer the laid-back and lazy approach of Valverde and that was why they didn't want him to go.
As long as the senior players are here we will remain on this hopeless path.

This!

Beyond me how some people believe sacking one coach after another is the way to go...

Bertomeu and Co are turning Barcelona steadily and gradually into Real Madrid: Superstars, Club de Amigos, no respect for coaches, no hard work in training, undermining academy, no plan whatsoever
And cherry on the top: being a financial mess, which Madrid avoids...

 

[Richard.H]

If my Spanish translation is correct, Bartomeu went to Setien's house to have a meeting with him (according to Sport.es)

 

[KingLeo10]

Senior players think a mid table level manager is too beneath them to listen to for tactics.

But they don't want a world class manager because then they've have to do exactly as that manager says.

Lol. Clowns.

 

[Potroh]

Setien is not the best manager however we are beyond savable or salvageable at this point with these senior players such as Messi, Suarez and Pique etc. blatantly signaling to the world that they are the ones who run the dressing home and dictate how we should play.

Messi & Co etc. probably don't like to be told to work hard during training and our games. They probably don't like the higher intensity Setien brought. They probably prefer the laid-back and lazy approach of Valverde and that was why they didn't want him to go.

As long as the senior players are here we will remain on this hopeless path.

You can blame the players but it is just an educated guess saying they want to avoid work or intensity.

This team is built around Messi so it is natural and obvious if Messi has a strong word of the elementary game-plan, even if it is obviously the coach's task to invent.
A star footballer, perhaps the best ever, with no known laziness or at 33 has the rights, not to dictate as such, but to cleverly and friendly influence what is going on in a team that is more or less bears his name and logo.

Perhaps there are some problems with 2-3 players, probably there are problems with Setien, who introduced a coaching team, instead of being the strong one alone, but the main problem is the board, as we all all know it for years.