Quique Setien

[serghei]

YOU brought up 2015 as an example of how "poor" Modric was, thats on you, not me.
Our season actually went downhill WHEN he got injuried, it proves the opposite of what you were trying to say.

We had 1 point advantage before the Camp Nou game. Win that and you go 2 points up + h2h advantage with a few games left. Modric played in that game.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

 

[Morten]

We had 1 point advantage before the Camp Nou game. Win that and you go 2 points up + h2h advantage. Modric played in that game.

He had been out for 4 months or so prior to that, he came back a few weeks before that game.
You know all of this.

Can you just admit this is a bad example and move on to something else?

I can admit no problem that i think Iniesta is the better of the player out of the two, its just that the line of arguments used are not exactly stellar.

 

[Batistuta9]

Modric is a great player and will go down as a legend, xavi and iniesta are a level above though and in the conversation as the best midfielders of all time.

Don't agree with people saying xavi is a level above iniesta. If I had to choose one I'd prefer iniesta due to his elegance and style. Both were the best at what they do. Unfair to say Spain fell off a cliff once xavi declined, would have been the same if it was the other way round. Together they were unbeatable. Xavi actually had a poor euro 2012 bar the final, where he bossed pirlo. Iniesta was Spain's outstanding player throughout the tournament by a distance

 

[serghei]

For me, Xavi is a "rarer" breed of midfielder than Iniesta. Let's put it this way. Xavi could perform Iniesta's role much better than Iniesta could do what Xavi did. I have seen Xavi at times used in more attacking roles, and I have no doubt he would shine in that setup as well.

Xavi's influence over the dynamic of the midfield is irreplaceable. You would have much easier time replacing the CM-AM role Iniesta did.

 

[Batistuta9]

For me, Xavi is a "rarer" breed of midfielder than Iniesta. Let's put it this way. Xavi could perform Iniesta's role much better than Iniesta could do what Xavi did. I have seen Xavi at times used in more attacking roles, and I have no doubt he would shine in that setup as well.

Xavi's influence over the dynamic of the midfield is irreplaceable. You would have much easier time replacing the CM-AM role Iniesta did.

I accept that xavi is a rarer type of midfielder than iniesta, but it doesn't make him better than iniesta. They're both the best at different things and they're both just as good as each other.

Xavi could do a role at AM, but he would have nowhere near the same impact as iniesta. People underestimate iniesta's qualities, he was the best in the world at changing the tempo and pace of the attack, along with superb dribbling, something fundamental, playing for those Spain and Barcelona teams. Otherwise we would just be passing teams to death. Qualities that xavi didn't possess. It's the reason why iniesta has been the best cm/am in a generation with other very good players like David Silva, ozil, cazorla etc

If I'm not mistaken, xavi started his career at AM and dropped further back as he didn't have much success, same for pirlo.

 

[serghei]

I accept that xavi is a rarer type of midfielder than iniesta, but it doesn't make him better than iniesta. They're both the best at different things and they're both just as good as each other.

Xavi could do a role at AM, but he would have nowhere near the same impact as iniesta. People underestimate iniesta's qualities, he was the best in the world at changing the tempo and pace of the attack, along with superb dribbling, something fundamental, playing for those Spain and Barcelona teams. Otherwise we would just be passing teams to death. Qualities that xavi didn't possess. It's the reason why iniesta has been the best cm/am in a generation with other very good players like David Silva, ozil, cazorla etc

If I'm not mistaken, xavi started his career at AM and dropped further back as he didn't have much success, same for pirlo.

Yea, fair enough, it's hard to objectively distinguish between them. I probably prefer Xavi based on subjective reasons, in my mind he was always the main man in our midfield.

 

[El Gato]

The problem with Modric is that, although he is a world class player, Madrid were often dominated in midfield, at home even, by Juve, Bayern, and often spanked in the clasico by Barcelona.

Often how often? Count on one hand list in the CL where we conceded the midfield while actually winning the ties?
Since when is domination a defining measure of success? What is this tiki-taka dogma BS? Barca have lost midfield battles on countless occasions pre and post Pep with Xaviesta.

Also bollocks were we dominated in midfield by Juventus. The 1-3 had absolutely nothing to do with losing a midfield battle, while Bayern games were even. If we lost games it's usually due to vulnerability on the wings or ridiculous mismatches.
We also lost several Clasicos while being as good or better side in them.

He doesn't influence the game continuously like Iniesta, let alone Xavi, did.

No way do teams come on Camp Nou and outplay Xavi and Iniesta in midfield, the way many teams did to Kroos and Modric.

Modrić absolutely does influence games continuously, on both offense and defense and is actually an underrated defender who did a lot of legwork for Carvajal. Less so when he got old of course. Madrid just don't believe in the need to retain sterile possession just for the sake of giving the illusion of scoreline control, especially when playing a poorly organised opponent.

Which teams outplayed us in midfield and when?

 

[serghei]

Dude, long story short, you can rate Modric however you want. Most knowledgeable fans will rate Xavi and Iniesta a tier above him without hesitation. If you believe differently... well... watch some more games of Xavi and Iniesta. 5-0 vs Madrid will be a good place to start and see what a midfield masterclass is.

Never seen godly performances like that from Modric where he completely toys with the elite sides of the world. In some ways I actually expected Madrid with peak Modric and Kroos to really smash us, but even older Iniesta and Busquets, with prime Rakitic added, were at least even quality with Modric and Kroos.

Imagine what peak Xavi and Iniesta would do to them. There's world-class, and there's beyond that. Modric, Kroos, Busquets, belonged in the world-class sector. Xavi and Iniesta went beyond that.

They are to midfielders what likes of Pele, Romario, Ronaldo Nazario are to strikers. Best of the best.

 

[Tackle]

older Iniesta and Busquets, with prime Rakitic added, were at least even quality with Modric and Kroos.

Stop it.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Stop it.

Yeah, even? They were far better in 2015 when Messi was playing on the wings and didn't put strain on midfield

 

[Tackle]

Yeah, even? They were far better in 2015 when Messi was playing on the wings and didn't put strain on midfield

No, Kroos-Modric was clearly superior to Iniesta-Rakitic even in 14/15, but it was not nearly as wide of a gap as it grew to become in the next few seasons. Iniesta was the best of the lot in the CL that season, but otherwise the Madrid duo were superior and the individual stats bear this out. Despite going trophyless Madrid did not perform poorly that season at all. 92 points in the league and missed out on a place in the CL final by a single late goal from Juventus.

That might have been the last time our midfield was truly functional since as you mentioned Messi moved more centrally the following season and disrupted the system, but let us not use revisionism here. Even back then people were complaining about our midfield and how MSN was doing everything. Now we like to look back fondly on those times and tend to paint a picture that's a bit too rosy.

 

[serghei]

Tackle, I suggest you take a look at the level shown by the midfield in 2014-15. Very underrated. Pressing all game, intensity, goals. Let's not forget Rakitic scored in the CL final for us. Dominated all big sides in CL even on their home ground, something we rarely did even under Guardiola.

Yeah, even? They were far better in 2015 when Messi was playing on the wings and didn't put strain on midfield

Midfield was great in that season. Last great midfield we had. Iniesta was older, but still good enough to be Motm in a CL final having MSN on the field. Rakitic was in his physical prime, Busi was top notch as well.

 

[KingLeo10]

Tackle, I suggest you take a look at the level shown by the midfield in 2014-15. Very underrated. Pressing all game, intensity, goals. Let's not forget Rakitic scored in the CL final for us. Dominated all big sides in CL even on their home ground, something we rarely did even under Guardiola.



Midfield was great in that season. Last great midfield we had. Iniesta was older, but still good enough to be Motm in a CL final having MSN on the field. Rakitic was in his physical prime, Busi was top notch as well.

Yup, now that I think back to it, Busquets post Anoeta was regularly in the top 3 in the man of the match...and this is while we had a prime Suarez and Ney ney.

Iniesta was vintage in the big games.

https://zippy.gfycat.com/SpectacularConcreteHorsechestnutleafminer.webm

Rakitic averaged 12-13 KM a game and was an actual workhorse and goal threat.

 

[serghei]

Yup, now that I think back to it, Busquets post Anoeta was regularly in the top 3 in the man of the match...and this is while we had a prime Suarez and Ney ney.

Iniesta was vintage in the big games.

https://zippy.gfycat.com/SpectacularConcreteHorsechestnutleafminer.webm

Rakitic averaged 12-13 KM a game and was an actual workhorse and goal threat.

Rakitic was great that season. Workhorse, discipline, intensity, plus very important goals. Allowed Alves to do his thing on the right with Messi without being as exposed defensively.

Great debut season for him. Rarely seen better first seasons than Rakitic in 14-15.

 

[serghei]

And Iniesta was still able to do this: