Quique Setien

[JohnN]

Re above John and Andresito. We are generally on the same page with a lot of the points discussed. Only thing I disagree with is AG can't play LW for me. No excuse for Puig not starting. If he can't take the pressure at home vs Granada then he has no business having a future here.

The one thing I disagree strongly with both of you on though is Umtiti. He has a barrel of mistakes in him just waiting to get out. I would literally not play him another minute.

Also, things are not as clear as EV supporters vs Setien supporters. There are guys like me who are happy EV is gone but are incredibly frustrated we didn't replace him with a truly world class manager.

I agree with the Griezmann point. They should absolutely play on opposite wings with Fati.
On the Umtiti front, I still have hope for Umtiti, so that's the reason I support the decision.

About the final paragraph, I do mention this on a post above and I absolutely respect that. I am not sure about Setien either, but realistically he is better than Xavi right now and not many great managers would come to this team, in this mess, in the middle of the season, so it is kind of understandable. My expectations have not changed much for this season. I didn't truly believe we ever had a chance at CL and I am still pessimistic about La Liga too, as Real are starting to get better.

What I would like to see is better football (or plain football, because we haven't been playing that this season) and some youth getting chances.

 

[Gaudi]

During a game they showedrunning statistics, we run almost the same as them...that was new.

But, noone should take to much from yesterday, coach's real hand will be seen in couple of months. This can only be new energy that comes with new coach.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Not much to take away from one game with a limited squad. Midfield should naturally be a lot better once Frenkie and Arthur are back. Would've liked to see Puig start but i guess it was kinda understandable to not start him right away. He should get regular minutes from now on though.

Front 3 wasn't perfect as well but i guess that was also wasn't the biggest surprise with Griezmann+Fati, even though Suarez also destroys a lot of attacks. Barca definitely needs another reliable goal threat.

Only weird thing standing out to me was Roberto. Semedo seems like better fit especially for that role he played there, and on top of it Roberto could've been another midfield option then.

 

[Alik]

No excuse for Puig not starting. If he can't take the pressure at home vs Granada then he has no business having a future here.

Riqui Puig did not get a single chance with Valverde and you think it's inexcusable he is not a starter in Quique's first match?

Bringing him on as a sub was the right decision imo.

 

[Andresito]

Also, things are not as clear as EV supporters vs Setien supporters. There are guys like me who are happy EV is gone but are incredibly frustrated we didn't replace him with a truly world class manager.

Valverde's sacking was truly great news. 18 months too late if you ask me.
But personally the appointment of Setién didn't affect me at all. He's like blank page and my expectations are mirrored by that.

The only expectations I have is that we notice a change in our tactics and mentality, to what extent is depending on Setién's ability, which is unknown since he's pretty unproven.

Against Granada there were some noticeable differences which is exactly what everybody wanted: change. But imo it's still very early to question Setién's decisions or draw any conclusions.

 

[Leong157]

You cannot judge a manager after one game, however you can judge some inexplicable decision that were made in said game.

1) Why set Roberto to ' stay back while attacking at home to Granada when attacking is his beat asset?

2) Why persist with Umtiti when he is clearly a shadow of the player he was and has no future here. Lenglet isn't great but is better. Why not try Araujo, it's Granada home after all.

3) Why play the Busi Raki combo that has an almost 100% failure rate. If your not going to start Puig when Arthur and FDJ are out then when will you ever start him. Isn't it more risky to start with a combo that has failed all season?

4) We all know Griezmann can't play LW. Now Suarez is out he doesn't need to. But he still played LW and Fati played RW. Inexplicably.

I agree with no.1. However,

2) Maybe because Langlet is 1 yellow card away from getting banned? And next week is Valencia.

3) Maybe because Puig has never started along side with Busi, Vidal in Laliga like ever? And Arthur just got back from long ass injury.

4) I half agree with this but it was not exactly ab LW more like a left striker. Our position was 3-5-2 when we have the ball with Alba as LM and Fati RM.

 

[boixos]

Valverde used to dominate cannon fodder teams in Camp Nou by large margins, with the team playing eye-pleasing football many times (yes, that's right). I found yesterday's game to be no different to what we have seen in the last few years in Camp Nou against similar opposition. Well, except, yesterday we won by a smaller margin and needed our opponents to go a man down for us to break the dead-lock.
I do hope things improve quickly in these next few weeks, because Quique is not going to find an easier run of fixtures later on in the season.

 

[LeeRomeno]

Of course that is true. It is hard to distance ourselves from our established opinions when assessing a situation. But it's not entirely impossible.

There is another clear pattern emerging here though.

You can easily spot, that most users (not all) that have supported EV, are immensely biased against Setien and can spot nothing good at all from our first game, while being extremely harsh on their judgment (I repeat, on the first game after less than a week of training the team).

On the other hand, you can also see that most members (not all again) of the "Valverde out" group are not immensely biased in favour of Setien. Many users have stated that if Setien does stupid things and doesn't improve the team after a couple of months have passed, they will call him out. All they have been saying is give the man a couple of weeks at least. Is that so illogical? Of course not.

On top of that, some members of the "Valverde out" group, aren't even in favour of Setien's appointment, as they feel we could bring someone with more experience at the top level. I don't feel this will stop them from judging things more objectively than the "Valverde cult".

The only conclusion I can make out of all this, is that people who supported EV, are too thick to admit they were wrong and will cherry pick anything in favour of their stance all this time. They have been watching our match with the sole expectation for the team to fail so they can support their opinion. That doesn't sound like a Barca fan at all to me.

Lol, i think issue here is that this forum overall has been massively biased against Valverde with 10 or so members swimming against the stream. It made me quit actively posting here, because although Valverde surely had its limitations, on most of part I was okey with his management right until Anfield and Copa loss. But for this forum, at least the active part, he was the antichrist and most often blamed for everything and you really get tired of reading this shit over and over again. Now in similar way, Setiens promotion has been treated like the second coming of the messiah. It is not difficult to see how the same treatment and picking on small mistakes will continue, but the sides have switched.
Especially the last part of "watching our match with sole expectation for the team to fail", there have been so many similar posts about matches during reign of Valverde (i hope he loses, so he will be fired etc). Nothing new really.

 

[Havesaks]

Valverde used to dominate cannon fodder teams in Camp Nou by large margins, with the team playing eye-pleasing football many times (yes, that's right). I found yesterday's game to be no different to what we have seen in the last few years in Camp Nou against similar opposition. Well, except, yesterday we won by a smaller margin and needed our opponents to go a man down for us to break the dead-lock.
I do hope things improve quickly in these next few weeks, because Quique is not going to find an easier run of fixtures later on in the season.

We played quick short-passing, possession football. Young players got considerable minutes and we made use of all three substitutions. Valverdes coaching was to create the best result for every game, but his approach lacked progression and we even regressed to the hands-off approach imo, Setien is trying to make use of his whole squad including young players, create a competitive environment.

Persobally I see more future in Setiens project then Valverdes. Those players were managed 2,5 year by Valverde, and it will take some time, before Setien can set his footprint, but I saw change and it has only been a week with him in charge.

 

[JohnN]

Lol, i think issue here is that this forum overall has been massively biased against Valverde with 10 or so members swimming against the stream. It made me quit actively posting here, because although Valverde surely had its limitations, on most of part I was okey with his management right until Anfield and Copa loss. But for this forum, at least the active part, he was the antichrist and most often blamed for everything and you really get tired of reading this shit over and over again. Now in similar way, Setiens promotion has been treated like the second coming of the messiah. It is not difficult to see how the same treatment and picking on small mistakes will continue, but the sides have switched.
Especially the last part of "watching our match with sole expectation for the team to fail", there have been so many similar posts about matches during reign of Valverde (i hope he loses, so he will be fired etc). Nothing new really.

You say you were "okey with his management right until Anfield and Copa loss" but the people you call "massively biased against Valverde", have been saying that Anfield was coming for too long. That was not bias at that point. That was a realisation that happened over the course of the season. Since then most have been saying a third humiliation is on the way and that is just common logic too. We have shown zoro improvement in 2 and a half years. The team have been playing worse and worse. The squad choices have been at least confusing.
So, at this point, I wouldn't call that "massively biased" but just "fed up". Wouldn't you?

What reasons exactly, has Setien managed to give in his one week tenure, that can explain the negative bias shown in the forum against him by some people? The answer is none. There is a clear difference here.

Getting to the last point: "there have been so many similar posts about matches during reign of Valverde (i hope he loses, so he will be fired etc). Nothing new really."
There is a difference here too.

People who disliked EV and were fed up with him, wanted our team to lose some games, so he can get sacked, expecting that to be in favour of the team. If they are right or wrong can be argued but the intention seems clear.
People who jump on Setien from day one, want the team to fail so they can be proven right. Not for the good of the team. Intentions seem clear here too.

 

[Xaviniesta]

Riqui Puig did not get a single chance with Valverde and you think it's inexcusable he is not a starter in Quique's first match?

Bringing him on as a sub was the right decision imo.

+1. that post was a classic example of a troll grasping at straws

 

[Marshall D Teach]

During a game they showedrunning statistics, we run almost the same as them...that was new.

But, noone should take to much from yesterday, coach's real hand will be seen in couple of months. This can only be new energy that comes with new coach.

Good signs still. Now do this in the CL please. Intensity has been one of our primary issues there.

 

[LeeRomeno]

You say you were "okey with his management right until Anfield and Copa loss" but the people you call "massively biased against Valverde", have been saying that Anfield was coming for too long. That was not bias at that point. That was a realisation that happened over the course of the season. Since then most have been saying a third humiliation is on the way and that is just common logic too. We have shown zoro improvement in 2 and a half years. The team have been playing worse and worse. The squad choices have been at least confusing.
So, at this point, I wouldn't call that "massively biased" but just "fed up". Wouldn't you?

What reasons exactly, has Setien managed to give in his one week tenure, that can explain the negative bias shown in the forum against him by some people? The answer is none. There is a clear difference here.

Getting to the last point: "there have been so many similar posts about matches during reign of Valverde (i hope he loses, so he will be fired etc). Nothing new really."
There is a difference here too.

People who disliked EV and were fed up with him, wanted our team to lose some games, so he can get sacked, expecting that to be in favour of the team. If they are right or wrong can be argued but the intention seems clear.
People who jump on Setien from day one, want the team to fail so they can be proven right. Not for the good of the team. Intentions seem clear here too.

Rofl, how is it so difficult to see things from different perspective? You just explained in your post how incredibly annoying it would have been for anyone else on this forum to actually participate, as majority belongs to the prophets of the future by "people have been saying that Anfield was coming for too long". This is incredibly annoying and falls directly under category of hoping for team to fail, which you now describe as something awful. Yes it is awful, i have never wanted squad to fail, neither under Valverde or under Setien, but i dont see what you critize now being in any way different from what you did before yourself.

And reasons why people act with agenda against Setien are based on the past behaviour of the forum. If we would have hired Setien instead of Valverde 2,5 years ago, none of the people would do the same thing, but as it has been godawful 2,5 years, it is basic human nature to retaliate.

As for your last point, you do not think people wish for Setien to fail because they actually think someone else would do a better job at helm? It is really difficult for me to understand why there would be people actively speaking out in a fan forum, if they did not care about the well-being of the team, it is just the methods of how it can be achieved, which bring out divisions and arguments.

 

[JohnN]

Rofl, how is it so difficult to see things from different perspective? You just explained in your post how incredibly annoying it would have been for anyone else on this forum to actually participate, as majority belongs to the prophets of the future by "people have been saying that Anfield was coming for too long". This is incredibly annoying and falls directly under category of hoping for team to fail, which you now describe as something awful. Yes it is awful, i have never wanted squad to fail, neither under Valverde or under Setien, but i dont see what you critize now being in any way different from what you did before yourself.

And reasons why people act with agenda against Setien are based on the past behaviour of the forum. If we would have hired Setien instead of Valverde 2,5 years ago, none of the people would do the same thing, but as it has been godawful 2,5 years, it is basic human nature to retaliate.

As for your last point, you do not think people wish for Setien to fail because they actually think someone else would do a better job at helm? It is really difficult for me to understand why there would be people actively speaking out in a fan forum, if they did not care about the well-being of the team, it is just the methods of how it can be achieved, which bring out divisions and arguments.

I personally never said I wanted the team to fail or lose or whatever. Losing in the copa was no problem though as it helped us get rid of EV.

Beyond that, the "prophets of the future" were proven right though, which should at least give some credibility to their assessment. Even though it was not that hard to predict since this team was going downhill for a long time.
"This is incredibly annoying and falls directly under category of hoping for team to fail": No it really doesn't fall under that category. You can call it fear mongering if you wish, but is the opposite of hoping, isn't it?

I do see different perspectives when they are present. I do see problems with Setien and positives that EV had. I see our aging and unmotivated squad and all that.

What I can't take seriously, are reactive opinions. Opinions perfectly described by this: "people act with agenda against Setien are based on the past behaviour of the forum". That is a nonsensical way of thinking and arguing.

About this: "As for your last point, you do not think people wish for Setien to fail because they actually think someone else would do a better job at helm?". No, I don't. Because Setien has 6 months to prove something and if the team fails now and he is replaced, the next manager will have even less time to do anything. On top of that, if a more established coach didn't accept the job now, imagine if we get even worse and have just fired our new coach. Literally no one would come. So, how would this help us this season? How would it be better for the team in any way shape or form? It wouldn't be.

 

[LeeRomeno]

I personally never said I wanted the team to fail or lose or whatever. Losing in the copa was no problem though as it helped us get rid of EV.

Beyond that, the "prophets of the future" were proven right though, which should at least give some credibility to their assessment. Even though it was not that hard to predict since this team was going downhill for a long time.
"This is incredibly annoying and falls directly under category of hoping for team to fail": No it really doesn't fall under that category. You can call it fear mongering if you wish, but is the opposite of hoping, isn't it?

I do see different perspectives when they are present. I do see problems with Setien and positives that EV had. I see our aging and unmotivated squad and all that.

What I can't take seriously, are reactive opinions. Opinions perfectly described by this: "people act with agenda against Setien are based on the past behaviour of the forum". That is a nonsensical way of thinking and arguing.

About this: "As for your last point, you do not think people wish for Setien to fail because they actually think someone else would do a better job at helm?". No, I don't. Because Setien has 6 months to prove something and if the team fails now and he is replaced, the next manager will have even less time to do anything. On top of that, if a more established coach didn't accept the job now, imagine if we get even worse and have just fired our new coach. Literally no one would come. So, how would this help us this season? How would it be better for the team in any way shape or form? It wouldn't be.

Cannot really think of anything more annoying than "told you so" type of people. Especially considering the expectations people have for the future can be totally different. As for team was going downhill for a long time, what loads of bull. We had won 5 previous games, then lost with benchers to Celta Vigo in nonrelevant game before the loss at Anfield and actually rested the starters as many wanted. We were well on course for 3 trophies in May.
This season has been been of course played at lower quality, but up until Anfield loss and doing the exact same mistake twice, there was no real reason to get rid of Valverde. Unless you understand that logic and that many people actually agree to that, it is not possible for you to understand why there are people who have negative comments towards Setien.
As for last point, have you been in future and know exactly that we would not be in even worse situation for summer with Setien? After all, everyone is being a prohpet here. Sooner you cut off the cancer, bigger the chances of surviving the disease right?
Also, Barcelona is top quality team and 99% of coaches would love the opportunity to be at charge, no matter the circumstances.