Real Madrid (old thread)

[Catalonian Devil]

Real Madrid dont lack ruthlessness. Check their scorelines from last season. They know how to kill teams.

Barcelona doesnt allow for that but Real Madrid score in less amount of chances than Barcelona can.

I'm referring more to big games, high-profile games, when it comes to crunch time they definitely lack the ruthlessness and leadership needed to give them the edge.

 

[Beast]

I would like to share my thoughts on the progress of Real Madrid and I welcome all thoughts. I read a lot of Culeros laughing and what not and to be honest, it hurts because this was a chance sorely missed to capitalize on an opportunity to demolish Barca. But instead, they came out winners. C'est la vie.

What I am thinking right now is that Madrid have come a long way. I mean Barcelona went far in their football practice, and Madrid drove them further. As opposed to catching up to them, we created even more motive for them to upgrade their system, to better their players. They met the challenge well and did well. Props to them, but we cannot stop here.

The problem we are facing is that we have depended on players to win titles who don't have much left in them. When we won that league with David Beckham and Roberto Carlos, they left. Instead of going forward we went back. We lost the main winner here, Capello in the process too. Robinho, Robben, Sneijder, Ruud, who also helped us win the second title were not there anymore.

Therefore, we had mini incomplete projects that did not allow us to dominate Europe or Spain. This is what I am afraid is going to happen. Certain players who we rely on for our backbone might not complete this season or go backwards, like Carvalho. One of the best defenders in his generation, a perfect reader of the game with a tackle in its own class. Unfortunately, he is slowing down and I feel will need to be replaced. Xabi is one of Spain's all time best products, the main outlet of the team, without him we look lost and all over the place, is over burdened with defensive duties and I feel is losing his physical well being. He was never the quick midfielder and I worry he will not have the physical capability to help us over come Barcelona.

Then there is the most difficult job at Real Madrid, the DM. Insert, Graveson, Guti, Beckham, Diogo, Emerson, Lass, Khedira, and they are all medicore at best in that position.

Having said that, here is what Madrid could not do without. In order for Mourinho to fully teach his new team a new method of football he needed the experience and Xabi and Carvalho. Without them, I feel we would have been too inexperienced and way too far behind Barcelona. Those two players above all else have helped us on the field, tactically speaking. They also happen to be top footballers so we were able to use that last year to gel and better yet, establish a system from which we could launch our attempt at European dominance.

Our offensive game will not get any better than this until we learn how to defend by keeping the ball, we have come forward in pressing and closing channels but we will still need to be able to hold onto it so we can catch a breathe. We also need to be more clinical in front of goal, and have that ability to score at will. Will Xabi be able to continue? I hope so but if not then I would hope to see Sahin get settled in quickly, because Khedira cannot be an outlet and Coentrao I am skeptical about in midfield.

I hope Ramos is moved into the center because he is one hell of a player that needs to come out of his shell. I feel he is not happy, something is wrong with Ramos and he is not reaching his full potential. Considering Ramos isn't used for his offensive prowess, move Ramos in, Arbeloa as RB, Marcelo as LB.

Di Maria who we depended on a lot needs to mature otherwise I see us playing Higuain/Benzema or Callejon/Granero in his position.

What are your thoughts, should the same line up from the 5-0 Classico continue or should be tweaked?

Casillas
Arbeloa Ramos Pepe Marcelo
Sahin Xabi
Di Maria Ozil Ronaldo
Benzema/Higuain
​

Is Sahin good defensively? I mean, will we need the physicality of Khedira/Lass if we are focusing on retaining the ball or press very quickly? Xavi and Iniesta are very short and light yet they can hold their own pretty well.

Dare I say I have looming thoughts of excluding Ronaldo from the team?

Look it's a repeat of history , i lived that before in the early 90's and it happened before to Barca in the 50's and second half of the 80's .
There is teams that comes ones in a lifetime , they are amazing , one unit has it all to succeed .

To beat these teams it's a case of waiting for the main focal points to age /lose the hunger /feed their ego and at the same time find the keys to beat them
it's always a case of trial and error , you keep trying different methods till you find the key .
With the current generation of Barca the focal points are Xavi-Puyol , the first is a solution to all problems he does to Barca what Zidane did to Real.. you just give him the ball and get on with your duties , the second lead the team . although there is upcoming replacement(Iniesta,Cesc,Pique..etc ) it's the case of they are not the same and no player ever replaced another player .. you add a super talent (Dinho than Messi ) for tight situations and you have the keys to Barca strength
In Barca case you also have their game style , comes down to passing and keeping possession what to do with them ? play them like a normal team and use your 4-4-2 ended with a 6-2 home defeat cause you were not good and they were at their best peak
you hire a manager who had the success rate of stopping them sometime with a small team, try to use 4-2-2-2 and make those Double AM's make their 3 man midfield be busy with it but a lack of leadership on & off the pitch (as a manager ) fails .
You bring a man with a better success rate and a better winner , he gets so cocky and try to play them an open game and he got his ass handed to him in fashion .. so you try to focus on stopping their game than playing them (which goes against what you did in the remaining games of the season ) and finally after several years you manage not to get beaten but you also fail to secure a win @ home
the draw gives you self confidence and you manage to finally beat them after 6-7 games using one of your strength which is the speed of your game but you still fail to maintain and use that system for an extra 180 Minutes in the CL and the lack of possession and the focus on stopping them overwhelm any tactical ideas it gets ugly and everyone gets pissed off .

eventually the answer was there since day one .. if you can't beat them , join them .. play Barca game against Barca , but you won't be as dumb as Arsenal and just to try to pass it around cause they do have better passers but you try to keep the ball , do the pressure they do on them and use the speed they don't use in attack
That's what we discussed during our transfers and i personally was ridiculed "Oh you will play with 8 defenders blah blah blah " , it was obvious Jose wants players who can keep the ball (sadly losing both Sahin and Altintop had him to go for Khedira again in the super cup classico )
We pressured them well kept better possession than any of the 5 games last year and we scored 4 goals in two games and could have won the game with more efficiency especially in the first leg + Valdes super form

Weakness will remain not having a low gravity defender in the center to lead with someone like Messi , as a tall guy myself it's always hard to deal with short skilled players and the pitch leadership and the feel of the game and by that those youth players from the academy who feel the importance and what the classico represent (something Barca will not have a problem in any time soon ) .

the formation is clear from June Raed , it's a 4-3-3 with the same defensive line up lead by the trio of Sahin-Xabi-Coentrao (who will do both his attacking duties and the energy speedy midfielder which Pepe did last year without Pepe madness ) and two deep playmakers to dictate the temp and avoid Pep master plan in the 5-0 by putting Xavi to pressure and man mark at time Xabi who is slow by nature in his game but with Sahin beside him he can just pass the ball to someone who will do the same job and move the ball forward without problem
the front is not an issue for Real , Benzema adds the dribbling skills that Higuain lacks , and we all saw how many times he dribbled without a problem of tight situations in the last 2 games with both CR & Ozil behind him and Higuain as an option/starter (when he gets back to match form -sharpness ) the loss can be Di Maria if he don't get back on form and still Jose had this covered with the more speedy Callejon who surprisingly did debut in the first classico
The team will get better once Sahin settles in and Altintop who is more a solid utility player be available

Sorry mate but that would be utter madness.

Another issue holding Real back now is the their mentality, the lack of ruthlessness, without it they will never be able to compete with champions. Had this same Real been more ruthless, this whole tie would've been over within the first 30 minutes of the first leg. That's what separates contenders from pretenders, the ability to pounce when it matters, the ability to smell blood and punish your opponents when presented with the opportunity. I don't know if its just a matter of them being away from the summit for way too long, or perhaps that they lack some sort of true leadership on the pitch. Sometimes I feel they miss that player that grabs the team by the scruffs and raises the teams level when it matters. A player that realizes the opportunity, and takes authority. I thought Ronaldo would be that player at one time in the past, but I'm not too sure now, the man lacks the high-profile game mentality to truly drive his team to glory when it matters. Kaka IMO would've been a perfect fit for that role if only he wasn't too busy making music videos.
Its times like these that Real Madrid miss the qualities of players like Raul.

I think it's still a mental thing why they didn't finish Barca off , you lose several times and u start to doubt yourself .. even the easiest of chances you miss
the team didn't need Raul , they needed Hierro
CR personal/team struggle is what holds him back , in the first leg he was more team oriented that's why he was efficient and more felt... second leg he was back to himself .. i don't think this will go away till he score one freaking amazing goal in Barca.. CR is like that you can notice it when he face a rare goal drought he isn't back until he score one amazing goal (not a tap in )

 

[FCBarca]

There's no doubt, Raed, that RM have come a long way - in terms of their footy...Right now, I'm not sure United could beat them which would make RM the #2 atm

It just gets ever so tiresome to see the increasingly unpalatable actions from Mou & the players...Is it really necessary?...Can't they simply stick to the football?...I don't see it getting better as it's only gotten worse - with zero culpability or regret from RM & Mou

It absolutely detracts from the best sporting spectacle on the planet but it cannot be swept under the rug

 

[House of Flies]

I'm referring more to big games, high-profile games, when it comes to crunch time they definitely lack the ruthlessness and leadership needed to give them the edge.

Leadership is lacking just due to the fact that Casillas is far away from the play. But as Gio stated, Real Madrid are getting more confident in their approach against Barcelona. They showed some ruthlessness after that 5-0 drubbing but Barcelona are up there as one of the nominees for team of the decade title. You just cant beat Barcelona utilizing one factor, Barcelona are so immense that you need several things going in your favor just to tie with them.

Yes, we are that good but Real Madrid are getting closer with each Clasico. Chances are at the end of the day, it wouldnt be Mourinho that pushes them over Barcelona. Madrid need someone not as abrasive as Mourinho to do that. They are a classy club and Mourinho is seriously lacking class these days. Wonder if it is due to him not being Charlie Sheen.

 

[Barcafan 2304]

I thuink they have come a long way and agree with FC Barca. They are the no 2 team in Europe and in actual fact, i would say they are better than Man utd

 

[mitkoa7x]

They are definetly going to destroy MU if they meet.

 

[Raed]

culeros is a disrespectful way to name barca fans, don't know if you are aware of it

Really? Does it mean asses?

 

[Raed]

Leadership is lacking just due to the fact that Casillas is far away from the play. But as Gio stated, Real Madrid are getting more confident in their approach against Barcelona. They showed some ruthlessness after that 5-0 drubbing but Barcelona are up there as one of the nominees for team of the decade title. You just cant beat Barcelona utilizing one factor, Barcelona are so immense that you need several things going in your favor just to tie with them.

Yes, we are that good but Real Madrid are getting closer with each Clasico. Chances are at the end of the day, it wouldnt be Mourinho that pushes them over Barcelona. Madrid need someone not as abrasive as Mourinho to do that. They are a classy club and Mourinho is seriously lacking class these days. Wonder if it is due to him not being Charlie Sheen.

There were two players besides Casillas who were supposed to be leaders, and both have unfavorable circumstances. Xabi is Real Madrid's leader on the pitch but he himself is a new comer and doesn't have that authority over the players. The other is Kaka who is rarely seen. A third player is Carvalho who is better at being a side kick leader than a full out captain. If it were up to me, I would restore some power in Ramos who has for some reason been pushed away from the team into that RB position with decreasing spot light. He is hot headed and has been responsible for naughty behavior (like kicking Ronaldinho on the ankle near the touchline) but he is Spanish, oozes talent, has been clutch when needed, been at the club for years and actually won back to back league titles, Eurocup and World Cup, and is NEVER involved in bust ups with Barcelona.

Xabi cannot be both leader AND messenger. A leader should control his team, his own way. Otherwise, as Meta said he will be doing things he doesn't want to and will be facing split personalities. He is both Hierro AND Emerson. Xavi is Pep on the field, Puyol is the leader. Xabi is either Xavi or Puyol. I don't like goal keepers being captains and if I am not mistaken, Capello said it before that he wants his captain to be in the middle of the pitch, no?

 

[Beast]

Yes he did and there was rumors that Jose would pull the same thing

 

[Raed]

Look it's a repeat of history , i lived that before in the early 90's and it happened before to Barca in the 50's and second half of the 80's .
There is teams that comes ones in a lifetime , they are amazing , one unit has it all to succeed .

To beat these teams it's a case of waiting for the main focal points to age /lose the hunger /feed their ego and at the same time find the keys to beat them
it's always a case of trial and error , you keep trying different methods till you find the key .
With the current generation of Barca the focal points are Xavi-Puyol , the first is a solution to all problems he does to Barca what Zidane did to Real.. you just give him the ball and get on with your duties , the second lead the team . although there is upcoming replacement(Iniesta,Cesc,Pique..etc ) it's the case of they are not the same and no player ever replaced another player .. you add a super talent (Dinho than Messi ) for tight situations and you have the keys to Barca strength
In Barca case you also have their game style , comes down to passing and keeping possession what to do with them ? play them like a normal team and use your 4-4-2 ended with a 6-2 home defeat cause you were not good and they were at their best peak
you hire a manager who had the success rate of stopping them sometime with a small team, try to use 4-2-2-2 and make those Double AM's make their 3 man midfield be busy with it but a lack of leadership on & off the pitch (as a manager ) fails .
You bring a man with a better success rate and a better winner , he gets so cocky and try to play them an open game and he got his ass handed to him in fashion .. so you try to focus on stopping their game than playing them (which goes against what you did in the remaining games of the season ) and finally after several years you manage not to get beaten but you also fail to secure a win @ home
the draw gives you self confidence and you manage to finally beat them after 6-7 games using one of your strength which is the speed of your game but you still fail to maintain and use that system for an extra 180 Minutes in the CL and the lack of possession and the focus on stopping them overwhelm any tactical ideas it gets ugly and everyone gets pissed off .

eventually the answer was there since day one .. if you can't beat them , join them .. play Barca game against Barca , but you won't be as dumb as Arsenal and just to try to pass it around cause they do have better passers but you try to keep the ball , do the pressure they do on them and use the speed they don't use in attack
That's what we discussed during our transfers and i personally was ridiculed "Oh you will play with 8 defenders blah blah blah " , it was obvious Jose wants players who can keep the ball (sadly losing both Sahin and Altintop had him to go for Khedira again in the super cup classico )
We pressured them well kept better possession than any of the 5 games last year and we scored 4 goals in two games and could have won the game with more efficiency especially in the first leg + Valdes super form

Weakness will remain not having a low gravity defender in the center to lead with someone like Messi , as a tall guy myself it's always hard to deal with short skilled players and the pitch leadership and the feel of the game and by that those youth players from the academy who feel the importance and what the classico represent (something Barca will not have a problem in any time soon ) .

the formation is clear from June Raed , it's a 4-3-3 with the same defensive line up lead by the trio of Sahin-Xabi-Coentrao (who will do both his attacking duties and the energy speedy midfielder which Pepe did last year without Pepe madness ) and two deep playmakers to dictate the temp and avoid Pep master plan in the 5-0 by putting Xavi to pressure and man mark at time Xabi who is slow by nature in his game but with Sahin beside him he can just pass the ball to someone who will do the same job and move the ball forward without problem
the front is not an issue for Real , Benzema adds the dribbling skills that Higuain lacks , and we all saw how many times he dribbled without a problem of tight situations in the last 2 games with both CR & Ozil behind him and Higuain as an option/starter (when he gets back to match form -sharpness ) the loss can be Di Maria if he don't get back on form and still Jose had this covered with the more speedy Callejon who surprisingly did debut in the first classico
The team will get better once Sahin settles in and Altintop who is more a solid utility player be available





I think it's still a mental thing why they didn't finish Barca off , you lose several times and u start to doubt yourself .. even the easiest of chances you miss
the team didn't need Raul , they needed Hierro
CR personal/team struggle is what holds him back , in the first leg he was more team oriented that's why he was efficient and more felt... second leg he was back to himself .. i don't think this will go away till he score one freaking amazing goal in Barca.. CR is like that you can notice it when he face a rare goal drought he isn't back until he score one amazing goal (not a tap in )

Well, all I am saying is that the system has been put in place, it needs the proper ingredients to make it reach its full potential. With Off form Di Maria, stiff Khedira, slowing down Carvalho and overwhelmed Xabi I think we are holding our system back, kind of defeating the purpose. Credit to them for taking to this level, but clearly we wont beat barcelona this way. We need some tweaks.

Your line up still scares the shit out of me, but we will see. I dont care who plays, but knocking this barca of its throne will perhaps be one of real madrid's greatest achievements.

 

[Raed]

Yes he did and there was rumors that Jose would pull the same thing

Nothing wrong with that, really. I love Casillas with all my heart and would defend him through thick and thin but he is only a better captain than Raul, and you know damn well that isn't much.

 

[Sergio]

But who would you replace him with as captain in the centre of the field? Only person is Xabi who is Basque... which would just be weird.

 

[Raed]

But who would you replace him with as captain in the centre of the field? Only person is Xabi who is Basque... which would just be weird.

A Basque who sacrificed himself for the club quite a lot now, and the Capital city, I think we should move beyond that. Unless I don't understand Spain and this is a huge taboo. Not saying it should be Xabi but I am just saying that him being Basque shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Sergio]

I guess there would be no problem actually, I mean Madridismo is all about being THE SPANISH team, and yet it is governed by a despot Portuguese and a squad of his thugs - Ese Portugues! que hijo puta es!

 

[Aryagorn]

How far has it come along? The sacking manager business?