Rodrygo

[Sorin]

Aren't you tired of jumping the gun with conclusions?

FFS, it is not about not being able to sign Rodrygo. I couldn't give 2 rats ass about not signing some 17 yo kid in Brazil right now. It's not what we need. However what is certain is that clubs in Brazil will churn out more talents in the future. Other talents than this kid. It's bad for business when you piss off clubs left, right and center. You end up having to pay the biggest sum possible if you want any of their players. Any negotiations will be shut off from the start. They'll prefer to negotiate or sell to other teams first. We'll be on the back burner. And that was my point BBZ. Understand it now?

And yeah, the board is to blame for Santos not wanting to negotiate shit. Valid for the next talent/good layer too. The board/robert is probably also at fault for having so many conditions on the Arthur deal. By taking pictures behind their fucking back we now have to put up with any of their conditions or else they'll report us for talking to a player under contract.

For the record, I have made myself clear that I want a world class forward if we are to replace/phase out Suarez, not some unproven guy. I do actually want Griezmann. I also posted that i don't want any other young midfielder. We'll already have Arthur and Alena as young guys from the next season. What we need is someone ready to contribute from the first minute. But yeah, let's watch it with blaming these saints that are Bartomeu and Co. Don't want to upset the delicate flowers.

 

[BBZ8800]

Certainly not all of them will turn out good but some will. If you don't even buy lottery at all you will never hit the jackpot.

And no, you can't buy the Griezmann's, Thiago's and Salah's out there for that kind of money, EVEN IF they are available.

If you don't play the lottery, you can't win the lottery.
That is true.
On the other hand, if you spend all the money on lottery and fail, you won't have the money for less risky things.

Arthur 40m
Pavon 30m
Rodrygo 50m
= 120m

Or:
Griezmann 100m
Thiago 70m

I mean, Rodrygo alone is 50m and Thiago is 70m.

Do you understand my point about lottery tickets and safer options?
We can't buy 3-4 youngsters and Griezmann and Thiago.
We can buy though only one kid each summer in whom we have faith and 2 proven players.

This is why the board is not stupid for not buying EVERY Rodrygo and Pavon out there.

 

[DonAK]

We should not sign Pavon.

 

[defyqa]

Can't really compare those two. Pavon will never be a top level player, while Rodrygo might just become one.

 

[tacticvarium]

I wouldn't sign any of Arthur, Pavon, or Rodrygo.
One proven, established player is worth much more than the combined three. Besides, we are already playing the lottery which is called La Masia which unfortunately hasn't been our first priority when it comes to finding young, suitable talents.

 

[Luftstalag14]

If you don't play the lottery, you can't win the lottery.
That is true.
On the other hand, if you spend all the money on lottery and fail, you won't have the money for less risky things.

Arthur 40m
Pavon 30m
Rodrygo 50m
= 120m

Or:
Griezmann 100m
Thiago 70m

I mean, Rodrygo alone is 50m and Thiago is 70m.

Do you understand my point about lottery tickets and safer options?
We can't buy 3-4 youngsters and Griezmann and Thiago.
We can buy though only one kid each summer in whom we have faith and 2 proven players.

This is why the board is not stupid for not buying EVERY Rodrygo and Pavon out there.

IF Griezmann comes, we can buy him for 100m ONLY because the lowered release cause. Otherwise there is no way 100m would land him or other established players like him. Thiago is a fantasy for some Barca fans for the most part, there is no clear indication that Bayern will sell or for that amount.

Regardless of whether Griezmann comes or not, we should invest in our future anyways. Short-term patches work and bring trophies for sure but if you don't invest money in long term targets you will always have to scramble to spend way more money down the road when these targets become established and proven players that you wanted, and ONLY IF they are available (many clubs simply will not sell). And if you think 50m for a bright young target is too much, please be prepared for some rude awakening, this market will only go up and not down.

And yes, we are not buying Pavon.

 

[BBZ8800]

IF Griezmann comes, we can buy him for 100m ONLY because the lowered release cause. Otherwise there is no way 100m would land him or other established players like him. Thiago is a fantasy for some Barca fans for the most part, there is no clear indication that Bayern will sell or for that amount.

Regardless of whether Griezmann comes or not, we should invest in our future anyways. Short-term patches work and bring trophies for sure but if you don't invest money in long term targets you will always have to scramble to spend way more money down the road when these targets become established and proven players that you wanted, and ONLY IF they are available (many clubs simply will not sell). And if you think 50m for a bright young target is too much, please be prepared for some rude awakening, this market will only go up and not down.

And yes, we are not buying Pavon.

Look, if we have let's say 250M to spend each summer.
Then, if you buy 5-6-7-8 youngsters like Rodrygo and Arthur, you are playing a lottery.
Remember what we have learned from the past: a new kid always looks shinier than the last kid who failed.

Oriol Busquets?
= currently looks more promising than Munir, Samper and others who have failed
Alena?
= currently looks shinier than Munir, Samper and others who have already failed

Arthur?
= currently looks more promising than Denis, Gomes, Paco and others who didn't reach expectations
Rodrygo?
= currently looks better than Gerson and lots of others who have already failed

And fans will always have a reply: no, but this guy is SOOOOOO different than all others who have failed in a similar way.

Now, if you have 250M and you buy 5-6 Arthurs and Rodrygos, what will you get?
On paper, you played well this lottery game and a future looks bright.
In reality, we spent 50 for Gomes, 10-15 for Denis, 20 for Digne, 35 for Paco, 30 for Umtiti etc.
Ok, we got Umtiti, but that money alone is worth as one Dembele/Coutinho, especially when you add wages for 5-6 players.

Now, would you rather buy 1 Coutinho or 5-6 lottery guys like Denis-Gomes-Paco?

I know, we can't just buy 11 players for 150M, but still.
You CAN'T have both Coutinhos and 5 players like Denis-Arthur.
It is: either Coutinho or youngsters.

This is why the logical approach is: buy 1 Coutinho and buy 1 youngsters per year, in whom you have the biggest faith.
I mean, we already have:
1. Alena
2. Arthur
3. Oriol
= who need chances and lots of playing time
Then we have:
4. Dembele who is also a kid
5. Semedo who needs time and chances
6. Mina, who needs time, but is probably already dead and gone
Now, imagine buying 2-3 more youngsters, like Rodrygo and Pavon.

That would mean:
Season 2018/19:
1. Alena 2. Arthur 3. Oriol 4. Dembele 5. Semedo 6. Pavon needing to be intergrated
Season 2019/20:
1. Alena again 2. Arthur again 3. Oriol again 4. Dembele again 5. Pavon again 6. now add Rodrygo into maths
7. now add some new La Masia kid like Cucu or that other younger LB Miranda 8-9-10. add 3 random new kids whom we will buy in the next season (some new gems like Arthur and Rodrygo from this season)
Season 2020/21:
Copy/paste ALL THESE PLAYERS and add 2-3 new gems whom we will buy and add new 2 La Masia kids (some midfielder, some Cb let's say)

With this logic, after 2-3 seasons, we would have 15 "gems" in our team who would all need time, minutes, chances, matches, lol.
And fans would yell: a coach is stupid!

How on Earth could we develop 15 youngsters in the same time and yet have Messi, Coutinho and big boys fighting for La liga and a CL?

Oh, I totally forgot, I didn't even mention Frankie De Jong and De Light in this story.

So, no, we are not Dortmund, Porto and other clubs who are developing kids.
At max, we can buy 1-2 kids on whom we want to bet and that's it.
We can't buy 5 kids each new summer.
They will never get chances and they will fail that way.
If you buy only 1-2 kids, well, there is some chance then that they will get some minutes.

In short:
1. if you buy 5 Arthurs, you won't have money for Thiago, Coutinho and similar
2. if you buy 5 Arthurs per year, in 3 years, you will have 15 Arthurs and majority of them will get sold and ruined

So, we can't go around the world and buy every single young guy who is hyped and has potential.
We need to have a balance:
1. spend some money on "right now" players
2. and buy 1-2 the most promising per year

So, guys, don't be mad at our board for not buying EVERY SINGLE kid with a potential.
We don't have:
1. money for that
2. minutes and matches on a field for them

 

[xXKonan]

According to Globo, Real presented a much better offer than ours and they are close to signing him.

Same deal as Vinicius it seems. We were highly interested in him as well but we weren't stupid enough like Real were to pay that much money for him considering he was only a teenager who never played top flight at the time.

Not really as fussed with Rodrygo either. Yeah he's talented but there's no way in hell we should be paying so much money for him at this age, especially considering neither of these two haven't show anything like Neymar talent at that age.

 

[MTL_Barca]

So then Real payed around 100 Mio for a 16 and a 17 yo Brazilian player? That's just crazy

 

[Morten]

So then Real payed around 100 Mio for a 16 and a 17 yo Brazilian player? That's just crazy

Perez is obsessed with getting the "Next Neymar", and wont let Barcelona stop him this time.

 

[snowy]

If you don't play the lottery, you can't win the lottery.
That is true.
On the other hand, if you spend all the money on lottery and fail, you won't have the money for less risky things.

Arthur 40m
Pavon 30m
Rodrygo 50m
= 120m

Or:
Griezmann 100m
Thiago 70m

I mean, Rodrygo alone is 50m and Thiago is 70m.

Do you understand my point about lottery tickets and safer options?
We can't buy 3-4 youngsters and Griezmann and Thiago.
We can buy though only one kid each summer in whom we have faith and 2 proven players.

This is why the board is not stupid for not buying EVERY Rodrygo and Pavon out there.

Not contesting the allocation of chips to lottery tickets vs safe bets. Where the board messed up is on the bets they made with their lottery allowance.

For instance, they could've signed Dembele 18 months earlier, directly from Rennes, for a sweet bargain. Demb was keen on signing up. The only thing he asked for was regular play time, which we didn't offer and Dortmund did. Which is weird since our absent right flank was one of the main issues in 2017.

Liv signed Couti from Inter for only 8.5 mill back in 2013. Dunno if some of you guys wanted him back then when he was only 20, but even 2 years later, why not use Arda's 40 mills + even a few more and get him from the Reds...

and if training staff had foreseen Pistolero's drop in form due to aging and too many yammi burgers, we could've chanced a direct trade for Mbappe with Monaco. Luis had a fantastic season so perhaps Monaco would have fancied the bite
If push came to shove, throw in twenty mills for a lock a load.


Looks like fantasy land and granted it's easy with retrospect, but in theory, we had the ammo to get:

Neymar---------------------Mbappe---------------------Dembele

----------------------------Messi------------------------------

_____Coutinho_______Arthur_______Busi________Zaha_________

____________________4 GIANT DEFCON Squad_________________________

Then, coach could switch between 434 and 344 depending on opponents. Ney would've been superhuman dumb dumb to leave with a dream set-up like this one ^

It would've been Trebble guaranteed baby!

 

[Messi983]

Not contesting the allocation of chips to lottery tickets vs safe bets. Where the board messed up is on the bets they made with their lottery allowance.

For instance, they could've signed Dembele 18 months earlier, directly from Rennes, for a sweet bargain. Demb was keen on signing up. The only thing he asked for was regular play time, which we didn't offer and Dortmund did. Which is weird since our absent right flank was one of the main issues in 2017.

Liv signed Couti from Inter for only 8.5 mill back in 2013. Dunno if some of you guys wanted him back then when he was only 20, but even 2 years later, why not use Arda's 40 mills + even a few more and get him from the Reds...

and if training staff had foreseen Pistolero's drop in form due to aging and too many yammi burgers, we could've chanced a direct trade for Mbappe with Monaco. Luis had a fantastic season so perhaps Monaco would have fancied the bite
If push came to shove, throw in twenty mills for a lock a load.


Looks like fantasy land and granted it's easy with retrospect, but in theory, we had the ammo to get:

Neymar---------------------Mbappe---------------------Dembele

----------------------------Messi------------------------------

_____Coutinho_______Arthur_______Busi________Zaha_________

____________________4 GIANT DEFCON Squad_________________________

Then, coach could switch between 434 and 344 depending on opponents. Ney would've been superhuman dumb dumb to leave with a dream set-up like this one ^

It would've been Trebble guaranteed baby!

We'd probably really have treble guaranteed if we'd play with 13.

Hindsight is always 20/20. None of Coutinho, Dembele or Mbappe was a "safe bet" at the time you suggested we should've signed them.


Anyway, Robert wanted to sign Dembele in 2016 but he rejected us because he wouldn't get minutes with MSN here.

Suarez was still in very good form while Mbappe was a talented but unproven player before he made a breakthrough season with Monaco. People here would probably go crazy if we'd changed established WC player for unproven youngster. On the other hand, there is absolutely no guarantee Monaco would do that swap either. And don't forget Suarez is Messi's best friend so selling him was and still is out of question.

Again, it's easy to be smart about Coutinho but we were not the only club that missed out on getting him for cheap. It's also questionable how he'd develop and if he'd be the same class player he's today if we or another club would signed him in 2013. Not every player will develop the same in any club. Liverpool take a lottery ticked on him and it worked out great for them but it's also their credit Cou is a player he is today.

 

[snowy]

We'd probably really have treble guaranteed if we'd play with 13.

Hindsight is always 20/20. None of Coutinho, Dembele or Mbappe was a "safe bet" at the time you suggested we should've signed them.


Anyway, Robert wanted to sign Dembele in 2016 but he rejected us because he wouldn't get minutes with MSN here.

Suarez was still in very good form while Mbappe was a talented but unproven player before he made a breakthrough season with Monaco. People here would probably go crazy if we'd changed established WC player for unproven youngster. On the other hand, there is absolutely no guarantee Monaco would do that swap either. And don't forget Suarez is Messi's best friend so selling him was and still is out of question.

Again, it's easy to be smart about Coutinho but we were not the only club that missed out on getting him for cheap. It's also questionable how he'd develop and if he'd be the same class player he's today if we or another club would signed him in 2013. Not every player will develop the same in any club. Liverpool take a lottery ticked on him and it worked out great for them but it's also their credit Cou is a player he is today.

oups you're right haha! me and my head in the clouds coming up with 13 player formations

and.... he's back on earth. For lottery tickets, there's so many to choose from but these two look good:

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/300945/Show/Christopher-Nkunku

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/332135/Show/Fousseni-Diabaté

Really liking Fousseni. He's got a really good touch and he's ultra-quick

 

[Porque]

I really like Rodrygo's attitude. The talent is there sure, but he seems to be more mentality there than other prospects like Vinicius and Odegaard. I think it will certainly help him in his development.

Madrid are paying too much, but what's too much if you have the money to spend? Truth be I am a bit disappointed if Rodrygo does indeed sign for them as he is one of the most interesting attacking talents from SA.

 

[Luftstalag14]

50m is too much for a teenager but we will be paying 200m plus for 20 something players later.

Sigh. One of these lottery tickets they bought is bound to churn out good for them. Sigh.

When was the last time we beat Real Madrid to sign a player when both parties showed interest? Neymar I believe, and it was because we promised more money, both legal and illegal. And we have been losing out to them every since. Either it is because our brand that is losing the allure a bit, or our management has been poor, or both.

Sigh.