Ronald Koeman

[Sorin]

Absolutely for me.

This is the problem with 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 imo. With a 4-3-3, the wings are done by pairs. RW/LW + RB/LB. So in this sense, fullbacks go really high up in a controlled manner, usually when the winger makes an inside run and leaves space open for an outside overlap. In moments where you have control.

But with systems where width is ensured on both ends by the fullbacks because everybody else plays narrow, everything on the wings is hugely, HUGELY dependent on the engine and the performance of the fullbacks. Fucking, hell, not even in the age of peak Alves the 3 at the back didn't work, under fucking Guardiola.

Tremendous tactical fuck-up. Here, this is before the goal.

It's simple really. Alba goes up because without fullbacks very high, you have no width in attack, Benzema goes wide to exploit the space available wide, you see Valverde picking up and pinning a defender (Lenglet), and then the Madrid fullback pushes up in space, with absolutely no-one to block him. Because well, your only wide players are caught up. Notice how huge the distance between Alba and Vazquez is.

It's naive by Koeman. 3 at the back doesn't work against team with the ability to switch the play on the wings quickly. They will find a motherload of space whenever they win a 1 vs 1 or whenever they switch the play fast.

Spot on, their 4-3-3 countered our 3-5-2 perfectly. It works when you play against the likes of Betis but against the top teams it gets found out real fast. I mean, I can't remember a team who employed such tactics being successful for long. Just Chelsea under Conte and that for a year and they flopped big time in the CL.

 

[Bobo32]

Yeah, the CDM should not let the opposition wingers get 1 on 1 with our CBs while Alba and Dest are caught up the pitch or overrun. Busi should close down the half spaces on either side, while the middle CB(Araujo) secures the center of the box with the other CB.

I think the CDM should maybe get out in the half space, but mostly cover the central corridor and make sure no one gets the ball uncontested in the #10 zone. He should not be going out of his position to press the ball in these situations, but be more worried about keeping the shape than the midfielders in front and the defenders behind.

If Alba is up, Pedri is the one to run back and press the ball holder in the outer corridor, together with Lenglet, who should be a lot more free with three at the back. If he isn't free to press in these situations what is he doing on the pitch? Even in a 4-3-3 I'd rather Lenglet run out, and Busquets drop in that case, than the opposite. But here you already have Araujo there in the middle, too.

 

[Rory]

Nope! Completely false! They needed Marcelo's speed on the wing, Isco's creativity, and Mariano's goal scoring instincts to win. How could you not see that??

 

[JamDav1982]

Quite the double act trolling and revelling in Real Madrid beating Barca.

Chuckle away lads.

 

[serghei]

Spot on, their 4-3-3 countered our 3-5-2 perfectly. It works when you play against the likes of Betis but against the top teams it gets found out real fast. I mean, I can't remember a team who employed such tactics being successful for long. Just Chelsea under Conte and that for a year and they flopped big time in the CL.

Yea, it works against Betis, because Betis doesn't have the ability to find the existent space and exploit the weakness of this system. When up against players that won about 4 CLs each though... a different story.

 

[JamDav1982]

Real played more of a 442 and both strikers dropped to midfield when Barca had ball. Viniscus more to left and Valverde tucked in more at RWB/RDM ready to spring out and attack space left by Alba.

The approach is fine if midfield can cover and not sloppy in final third as Barca were but wasnt working and worse when behind.

 

[Rory]

Quite the double act trolling and revelling in Real Madrid beating Barca.

Chuckle away lads.

Right because believing subbing three players who aren't your starting xi (past it Marcelo, past it Isco and Mariano) = resting legs for UCL is trolling. Not revelling in Real beating us. I'm admitting they were superior. Guess I'm just more grown up and can admit faults.

 

[JamDav1982]

Right because believing subbing three players who aren't your starting xi (past it Marcelo, past it Isco and Mariano) = resting legs for UCL is trolling. Not revelling in Real beating us. I'm admitting they were superior. Guess I'm just more grown up and can admit faults.

Yip clearly trolling and revelling in the Real win to score cheap points.

No chance Zidane rests players when Real pinned back at 2-1 up in most important game of season.

Idiotic claim to try and troll.

 

[Barcaman]

Right because believing subbing three players who aren't your starting xi (past it Marcelo, past it Isco and Mariano) = resting legs for UCL is trolling. Not revelling in Real beating us. I'm admitting they were superior. Guess I'm just more grown up and can admit faults.

In what way were they "superior"? Shots (both on and off target) in our favour, blocked shots too, corners in our favour, possession way in our favour.

 

[Richard.H]

Yip clearly trolling and revelling in the Real win to score cheap points.

No chance Zidane rests players when Real pinned back at 2-1 up in most important game of season.

Idiotic claim to try and troll.

No one is trolling, even commentator Ray Hudson mentioned they are probably doing these subs to rest Benz for Liverpool (not sure if he mentioned Kroos). Why would he put Marcelo and Mariano in who have barely been factors to RM's success this season?

 

[Rory]

Yip clearly trolling and revelling in the Real win to score cheap points.

No chance Zidane rests players when Real pinned back at 2-1 up in most important game of season.

Idiotic claim to try and troll.

You sound like you've been drinking too much or something. Off to bed with you. The biggest troll on this forum except for the obvious ones is you and your contrarian takes.

Of course he was resting players and rotating knowing they'd do a decent enough job. If he didn't have Liverpool coming up he wouldn't have brought them all on.

 

[JamDav1982]

No one is trolling, even commentator Ray Hudson mentioned they are probably doing these subs to rest Benz for Liverpool (not sure if he mentioned Kroos). Why would he put Marcelo and Mariano in who have barely been factors to RM's success this season?

Ray Hudson speaks some amount of shite so couldnt care less what he claimed... and Benzema may well have been tired on older legs on heavy pitch for reason to come off when trying to break.

Zero chance they weakened team as cruising to see game out.

 

[Rory]

In what way were they "superior"? Shots (both on and off target) in our favour, blocked shots too, corners in our favour, possession way in our favour.

Created more dangerous chances. Let us have the ball when they knew they could sit back and play counter attacks. They could have been 3/4 up before we even had a half chance.

 

[JamDav1982]

Created more dangerous chances. Let us have the ball when they knew they could sit back and play counter attacks. They could have been 3/4 up before we even had a half chance.

'Could have been 3/4 up' is irrelevant. They were not and Barca were better team in second half and Real were under pressure.

 

[El Gato]

The subs were also a consequence of injuries.