Ronaldo

[Maradona37]

Suarez and Benzema play in this era in superteams and Lewandowski's individual records are comfortably better than them at every level yet you'll find excuses to hype them up. 😂


You're doing the same thing you're accusing me of.

Which red marks against Suarez and Benzema?

Lewa has red marks too if that is the case.

And this is the difference - you rate by trophies, stats and achievements- I rate by ability and attributes. Lewa is a very good footballer, but to me Benzema and Suarez were simply better footballers.

You also neglect to mention that Benzema spent a decade being Ronaldo's facilitator, whereas Lewa was always the focal point.

Same as Neymar is much more talented than Lewa but has red flags too.

 

[Maradona37]

Haaland will definitely go down as one of the greatest strikers ever if he continues in this manner. Whether you like it or not.


And nothing will change the fact that this forum's favourite strikers like Suarez and Benzema have huge red marks on their CV.

Haaland needs to significantly improve his technique, stats and/or performances in big games.

 

[Temptation]

Which red marks against Suarez and Benzema?

Lewa has red marks too if that is the case.

And this is the difference - you rate by trophies and achievement s- I rate by ability and attributes. Lewa is a very good footballer, but to me Benzema and Suarez were simply better footballers.

Same as Neymar is much more talented than Lewa but has red flags too.

Suarez is a bum in the CL. 26 goals in 90 plus games while playing with the likes of Messi and Neymar who are very creative. Went 6 years without an away goal in the CL. Even CBs score a header or two in that timeframe.

Benzema has a non-existent international career and was a meme before 2018(which was harsh because he was always class but he was never considered the best because he missed chances for fun). Benzema before 2018 was like a slightly better version of Firmino which is great but not an all timer.

Lewandowski can't win anything with Poland because not even Diego Maradona can win trophies with Poland. His record with the national team is exceptional and he somehow has better numbers than Suarez who plays for a tier 2 powerhouse in Uruguay. Lewandowski has more knockout stage goals(with better ratio) and goals against big teams than both so that argument falls flat on it's face too.

In his prime, Lewandowski has the same numbers as Cristiano in his best year(both tied at 69 goals). In every goalscoring list in the modern era, he's consistently at the top behind the two freaks. Won't even talk about consistency and longevity.........

Lastly, you talk a lot about morals in the Cristiano thread. Lewandowski is definitely not a pedophile or a racist, nor does he bite people or record them without permission.........

 

[Temptation]

Haaland needs to significantly improve his technique, stats and/or performances in big games.

He's already on his way to becoming one of the best goalscorers ever.


His all round game is shite but let's not forget that people questioned Messi and Ronaldo's big game record too at this point in their careers. Haaland has a lot of time to prove himself in big games and improve his overall contribution.

 

[L3v1s]

Suarez and Benzema play in this era in superteams and Lewandowski's individual records are comfortably better than them at every level yet you'll find excuses to hype them up. 😂


You're doing the same thing you're accusing me of.

Liverpool 13/14 was a super team? He almost single-handedly lead the scousers to the title with a bang average team, had arguably the greatest peak a Premier League striker has ever had, won the Golden Boot against Messi & Ronaldo with no penalties taken. That season's performances and his career overall was overshadowed due to the biting incident at the 2014 World Cup, or else he could've been a Ballon D'or candidate too. Suarez from 2012-2017 was unmatched.

 

[Maradona37]

Suarez is a bum in the CL. 26 goals in 90 plus games while playing with the likes of Messi and Neymar who are very creative. Went 6 years without an away goal in the CL. Even CBs score a header or two in that timeframe.

Benzema has a non-existent international career and was a meme before 2018(which was harsh because he was always class but he was never considered the best because he missed chances for fun). Benzema before 2018 was like a slightly better version of Firmino which is great but not an all timer.

Lewandowski can't win anything with Poland because not even Diego Maradona can win trophies with Poland. His record with the national team is exceptional and he somehow has better numbers than Suarez who plays for a tier 2 powerhouse in Uruguay. Lewandowski has more knockout stage goals(with better ratio) and goals against big teams than both so that argument falls flat on it's face too.

In his prime, Lewandowski has the same numbers as Cristiano in his best year(both tied at 69 goals). In every goalscoring list in the modern era, he's consistently at the top behind the two freaks. Won't even talk about consistency and longevity.........

Lastly, you talk a lot about morals in the Cristiano thread. Lewandowski is definitely not a pedophile or a racist, not does he bite people or record them without permission.........

Well, firstly, I thought you might talk about Suarez and Benzema as people. As you know, I fully agree - from my limited knowledge of the three, Lewa seems like by far the best person and the one I would much rather hang out with than the other three. But I am rating them as footballers, not people. If I was rating them as people, Benzema, Suarez and CR wouldn't make my top 1000 players ever.

Other than that, I am just about to go offline to do some work. All I will say is that you are rating by goals again. Suarez did indeed not score many goals in the CL, but generally he did a lot of work outside the box and team play. It's a red mark for sure but he was still a very good player for Barcelona. I agree though it isn't a great record for a forward.

Benzema's international career was more because of his constant falling outs with people. The only people who considered him a meme before 2018 as a player were Ronaldo's clueless fanboys, who influenced others to think that, posting memes of his misses when Ronaldo himself generally had the lowest shot conversion rate in Europe. He scored so many because he got so many chances, heavily aided by that in one Karim Benzema, ironically. I don't listen to clueless Ronaldo fanboys who had an agenda against Benzema at the time because they were jealous of anyone at RM who got credit not named Ronaldo.

I had a feeling you would bring up Lewa's international career. I watch every international tournament and never have I thought that Lewa played well at one. He gets the odd goal or two sometimes, but they've at times been consolations or utterly meaningless. Very rarely if ever had he dragged the team. Now of course I don't blame him for this as Poland are mediocre, but still.

Suarez has had far better international tournaments than Lewa, eg 2010 wc, 2011 copa america, some others, so that is just disingenuous again to rate them by stats We have all seen the tournaments, mate.

You have also created a strawman argument - no, Maradona wouldn't win anything with Poland. But he'd do a lot more with them than Lewa has at interntional tournaments. That argument is akin to people letting Ronaldo off the hook saying 'Portugal can't win a World Cup', when actually guys from even smaller nations have had far better World Cups than him eg Hagi, Stoitchkov, the Laudrup brothers, James Rodriguez, Forlan, Modric etc. Maradona would do far more for Poland than Lewa has so that's a poor argument you made there.

You keep talking about stats even though I told you I look for far more than stats in a player. It's a fundamental difference in how you and I rate players.

Finally, I want you to know that I genuinely do think you are a decent guy. However, you have an odd love for Lewa. I don't know where it comes from or how it started, but you are absolutely compelled to put down clearly significantly better players (R9) to talk him up. It's like you take personal offence to him being rated as great as he is, but will never be satisfied until he's rated as the best striker of all time. It's very odd.

 

[Maradona37]

He's already on his way to becoming one of the best goalscorers ever.


His all round game is shite but let's not forget that people questioned Messi and Ronaldo's big game record too at this point in their careers. Haaland has a lot of time to prove himself in big games and improve his overall contribution.

He likely won't. he hasn't got the skillset Messi and to a lesser extent Ronaldo had. He is also very reliant on physical gifts so will likely decline quicker.

 

[Temptation]

Liverpool 13/14 was a super team? He almost single-handedly lead the scousers to the title with a bang average team, had arguably the greatest peak a Premier League striker has ever had, won the Golden Boot against Messi & Ronaldo with no penalties taken. That season's performances and his career overall was overshadowed due to the biting incident at the 2014 World Cup, or else he could've been a Ballon D'or candidate too. Suarez from 2012-2017 was unmatched.

Mate, I am a Liverpool fan. While Suarez scored some bangers against Norwich and lesser teams, he was pretty disappointing against the top teams.


He was excellent for us overall but that team wasn't as crap as people say. Sturridge was in the form of his life and formed a great partnership with Suarez and Gerrard was great in his more mature role. We had a young Sterling emerging who was rapid and exciting. We played some good football under Brendan.


Suarez almost won us the league. Lewandowski actually won Dortmund the league against Bayern multiple times and took them to a CL final scoring 4 against Madrid in the semis. Big difference.

 

[Maradona37]

Mate, I am a Liverpool fan. While Suarez scored some bangers against Norwich and lesser teams, he was pretty disappointing against the top teams.


He was excellent for us overall but that team wasn't as crap as people say. Sturridge was in the form of his life and formed a great partnership with Suarez and Gerrard was great in his more mature role. We had a young Sterling emerging who was rapid and exciting. We played some good football under Brendan.


Suarez almost won us the league. Lewandowski actually won Dortmund the league against Bayern multiple times and took them to a CL final scoring 4 against Madrid in the semis. Big difference.

First paragraph isn't true in my opinion. He often got laughed at for not scoring against teams like Man City and Chelsea, but if you actually watched plenty of those games (and don't just go by stats) he was Liverpool's best player quite often and made things happen.

It's a lazy opinion that is commonly spouted for me, all because he didn't get stats.

Also, Gerrard's positioning was awful in that DM role and a big reason why Liverpool conceded a lot of goals and Suarez had to score so many with Studge.

'Lewandowski actually won Dortmund the league against Bayern multiple times'

Did it himself, did he?

 

[Temptation]

Well, firstly, I thought you might talk about Suarez and Benzema as people. As you know, I fully agree - from my limited knowledge of the three, Lewa seems like by far the best person and the one I would much rather hang out with than the other three. But I am rating them as footballers, not people. If I was rating them as people, Benzema, Suarez and CR wouldn't make my top 1000 players ever.

Other than that, I am just about to go offline to do some work. All I will say is that you are rating by goals again. Suarez did indeed not score many goals in the CL, but generally he did a lot of work outside the box and team play. It's a red mark for sure but he was still a very good player for Barcelona. I agree though it isn't a great record for a forward.

Benzema's international career was more because of his constant falling outs with people. The only people who considered him a meme before 2018 as a player were Ronaldo's clueless fanboys, who influenced others to think that, posting memes of his misses when Ronaldo himself generally had the lowest shot conversion rate in Europe. He scored so many because he got so many chances, heavily aided by that in one Karim Benzema, ironically. I don't listen to clueless Ronaldo fanboys who had an agenda against Benzema at the time.

I had a feeling you would bring up Lewa's international career. I watch every international tournament and never have I thought that Lewa played well at one. He gets the odd goal or two sometimes, but they've at times been consolations or utterly meaningless. Very rarely if ever had he dragged the team. Now of course I don't blame him for this as Poland are mediocre, but still.

You have also created a strawman argument - no, Maradona wouldn't win anything with Poland. But he'd do a lot more with them than Lewa has at interntional tournaments. That argument is akin to people letting Ronaldo off the hook saying 'Portugal can't win a World Cup', when actually guys from even smaller nations have had far better World Cups than him eg Hagi, Stoitchkov, the Laudrup brothers, James Rodriguez, Forlan, Modric etc. Maradona would do far more for Poland than Lewa has so that's a poor argument you made there.

You keep talking about stats even though I told you I look for far more than stats in a player. It's a fundamental difference in how you and I rate players.

Finally, I want you to know that I genuinely do think you are a decent guy. However, you have an odd love for Lewa. I don't know where it comes from or how it started, but you are absolutely compelled to put down clearly significantly better players (R9) to talk him up. It's like you take personal offence to him being rated as great as he is, but will never be satisfied until he's rated as the best striker of all time. It's very odd.

Talking about their attributes, Suarez doesn't have the aerial presence or holdup play with back to goal like Lewandowski and Benzema do. Suarez is excellent at linkup play though and strong and determined on the ball.


Benzema seems like the most complete until you take into account that his finishing has been really inconsistent over his career. But his all round game is absolutely elite.


Suarez is more likely to create something out of nothing but people forget that Suarez has the most inconsistent, untidy touch and control out of the 3. Suarez has plenty of donkey moments which makes him very unpredictable. He was a bit of a ricochet merchant in his peak which isn't the most aesthetically pleasing either.


One more thing people forget is that Lewy never played with elite goalscorers like Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar. Playing with these players gives you many more assists than you actually deserve because of their brilliance in the final third.


As a Liverpool, Lewandowski and Suarez fan, I am in a pretty good position to analyse their games.

 

[Maradona37]

Talking about their attributes, Suarez doesn't have the aerial presence or holdup play with back to goal like Lewandowski and Benzema do. Suarez is excellent at linkup play though and strong and determined on the ball.


Benzema seems like the most complete until you take into account that his finishing has been really inconsistent over his career. But his all round game is absolutely elite.


Suarez is more likely to create something out of nothing but people forget that Suarez has the most inconsistent, untidy touch and control out of the 3. Suarez has plenty of donkey moments which makes him very unpredictable. He was a bit of a ricochet merchant in his peak which isn't the most aesthetically pleasing either.


One more thing people forget is that Lewy never played with elite goalscorers like Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar. Playing with these players gives you many more assists than you actually deserve because of their brilliance in the final third.


As a Liverpool, Lewandowski and Suarez fan, I am in a pretty good position to analyse their games.

Fair enough on first three paragraphs:

Only things to say

Paragraph 4: that's pretty funny because Ronaldo, as I said, missed a ton of chances. If you go back and look he had the lowest shot conversion rate in Europe most seasons. He was a volume shooter. It's also ironic because what you are describing describes Ronaldo too - he has loads of very simple assists that guys like Bale and Benzema made something out of. So it works both ways. I am not having you talk up CR to put down Benzema, when Benzema did so much donkey work for the Portuguese. Ronaldo has far more assists than far more creative players from the past. '

. Playing with these players gives you many more assists than you actually deserve' indeed.

Paragraph 5: being a fan of someone doesn't mean you watch them more, or indeed understand what you are watching. I would bet I have watched just as much of both players as you, plus I trust my ability to rate players over yours, with all due respect. Playing the 'I watch them more' card is showing desperation on your part and proving you are running out of arguments.

Fair enough if you rate Lewa over Suarez and Benzema. But please accept it is more than reasonable to do the inverse. You are acting like it is a farce to think they're better, when actually it's what many people believe. It's fanboyism.

 

[Temptation]

First paragraph isn't true in my opinion. He often got laughed at for not scoring against teams like Man City and Chelsea, but if you actually watched plenty of those games (and don't just go by stats) he was Liverpool's best player quite often and made things happen.

It's a lazy opinion that is commonly spouted for me, all because he didn't get stats.

Also, Gerrard's positioning was awful in that DM role and a big reason why Liverpool conceded a lot of goals and Suarez had to score so many with Studge.

'Lewandowski actually won Dortmund the league against Bayern multiple times'

Did it himself, did he?

He was underwhelming and wasteful against the big teams.


Did he have good games? Ofcourse he did. He combined really well in some of those games. Can remember a few performances against the likes of Yanited and Chelsea.


But was he elite and dominant in big games for Liverpool? Absolutely not. Not even close.


Gerrard's defensive positioning is shite because he's not a DM tactically but his passing was incredible at that stage of his career. The sheer variety of passes and his vision meant that he was more than useful. Great set pieces and leadership too obviously.


Sturridge was a beast back then. Remember his combination with Suarez?
Sterling was electric and a great young talent.

 

[Andresito]

Wait, was curious about the Dortmund BuLi wins.

They won twice in a row, 10/11 and 11/12.

First year Lewandowski played second fiddle to Barrios and barely did anything of note.

Second year he exploded and scored 22 and ended third top scorer in the league behind Huntelaar and Gomez.

So it's not like he transformed Dortmund. The winning year he was influential they were already title holders. Other than that there are no Dortmund league wins under his belt.

 

[Maradona37]

He was underwhelming and wasteful against the big teams.


Did he have good games? Ofcourse he did. He combined really well in some of those games. Can remember a few performances against the likes of Yanited and Chelsea.


But was he elite and dominant in big games for Liverpool? Absolutely not. Not even close.


Gerrard's defensive positioning is shite because he's not a DM tactically but his passing was incredible at that stage of his career. The sheer variety of passes and his vision meant that he was more than useful. Great set pieces and leadership too obviously.


Sturridge was a beast back then. Remember his combination with Suarez?
Sterling was electric and a great young talent.

Fair enough, I can reach a consensus with you on some of that there.

Gerrard's biggest weaknesses have always been positioning and being a Hollywood ball merchant, as well as his 100mph stupid Roy of the Rovers style of play. I never rated him close to as highly as guys like you do. I would have David Silva over him (different types of players) and I am being serious.

Yes, I remember some of the SAS combo, brilliant. I just feel you are looking for reasons to put down Suarez so you can elevate Lewa.

 

[Maradona37]

Wait, was curious about the Dortmund BuLi wins.

They won twice in a row, 10/11 and 11/12.

First year Lewandowski played second fiddle to Barrios and barely did anything of note.

Second year he exploded and scored 22 and ended third top scorer in the league behind Huntelaar and Gomez.

So it's not like he transformed Dortmund. The winning year he was influential they were already title holders. Other than that there are no Dortmund league wins under his belt.

Indeed. I raised my eyes at that too

By far the most impressive thing he did at Dortmund was all those goals in that game against Real Madrid. But he has never come even close to replicating something like that ever again in the CL.