Sergi Roberto

[Sumlit]

It's not about giving up flare, it's that he currently doesn't offer much other than being a player who can pass the ball correctly. He doesn't try to get forward much, he doesn't have great vision, he doesn't dictate a game well or control all aspects of buildup play, and he doesn't offer much defensively either. He's not error prone or anything but he relies too much on caution and correctness to be great or add anything to our game, unlike Thiago who actually could dictate a game with immense ability and use his flair/attacking ability to keep our play lively. So far, he hasn't impressed me or shown anything that sets him apart and I doubt he'll even get the chance to change that, let alone see if he actually can.

I think there are some inaccuracies in your post.

For instance I saw plenty of instances when Roberto was involved in attacking plays and was adventurous going forward. Conversely, Thiago sometimes got completely lost in games where you often wondered if he even played at all. Also, Thiago is not yet great at dictating and controlling the game. That is one aspect of his game that has yet to evolve. Only in U21 did you see more of this come forward, but definitely not on the first team.

IMO Thiago's play was sometimes bipolar. He sometimes showed incredible confidence in his ability and went into extensive displays of flare that left you very excited. However you also saw him make costly mistakes caused by his overused of flare that promptly made him very self doubtful about his abilities and made him go into a shell where he became very risk adverse. Hence why you saw him disappear for large stretches of games.

Roberto's game is more controlled, more in command. He perhaps is less capable of reaching great highs during games, but he also is going to give you many less lows than Thiago.

All of this is still contingent on the fact that we have much more sample size of Thiago's game than Roberto's.

I still stand by my judgement. I feel Thiago has been a little overhyped, while Roberto has been a little underrated. Time will tell though.

 

[DonAndres]

You really can't compare the two. Thiago was far superior in both fundamental and spectacular qualities, anyone would agree to that. One was highly impressive in a midfield with players like Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, etc. while the other was not even impressive in the Segunda division. You can't always judge Roberto by the games he played with the first team, because that's way too small a sample space. With the B team he didn't help provide any control at all to the midfield and we constantly got ran over by opposition players. He's rarely "in command" and doesn't look like he can even do anything other than pass regularly without controlling our play. I think you have some misunderstanding about Roberto's characteristics, as he is definitely overhyped just because he's another CM from the cantera. Not every player who is reserved is some sort of "quiet genius" like Busquets.

 

[Sumlit]

I never said they are equally talented. Thiago is much further along than Roberto at this point.

The way you speak about Thiago leads me to believe you are basing all this merely on his U21 performance. Thiago was not great while playing for the first team. He had many more bad games than he had good ones. We all kill Tito for his mismanagement of Thiago, and rightly so. However the truth also is Thiago did not jump of your screen while playing for the first team. He had a ton of games where he was just basically invisible.

I only judge Roberto by the games he has played for the first team because those are the ones that matter. You are right we do not have enough sample size to make a correct assessment, but for the games he has played, he has been good.

IMO Thiago has a lot of Bojan in him. He thrives under ideal circumstances where he just has superior talent to those surrounding him. But when you put his back to the wall and but pressure and adversity on him, he crumbles a little bit.

 

[jamrock]

your both a bit wrong
sumlit: thiago is a whole bag of awesome and is a bigger talent than roberto, no doubt about that.

donadres: you can use last season with barca b to judge roberto, everyone has a bad season he was excellent in all the over seasons he played for the team and was very good whenever he got a chance with the first team last season.


it all doesn't matter anyways as i can't see tito using him much next season.

 

[Sumlit]

I've never disputed Thiago's talent and he is at this point just plain better than Roberto. He does have flaws though. And he has been overhyped.

 

[DonAndres]

Basing on the u21 performance? I don't know where the idea comes that he was "not that great" with the first team, he had several great games and in almost every single one he was heavily involved. If you don't believe me then go back to check the games vs: Cordoba, Osasuna, Athletic, Zaragoza, Getafe, Granada, and Celta which are the ones I can remember being his most impressive since he got to play a majority of those games instead of small cameo appearances. He was among the best players on the pitch if not the best in those games and in other ones he was impressive too but not as much. He even did very well against Bayern when he came on comparatively to all our other players. The only big game he wasn't impressive in when starting was the Madrid loss in the liga and the entire team wasn't great in that one. Where do you get this whole idea of "crumbles under pressure" when often he does even better under pressure, unlike Roberto who only passes sideways 90% of the time when you put a single opposition player in front of him.

The games Roberto played with the first team "matter" but even then the only one where he did well was vs Espanyol in the Catalonia Cup, the others he wasn't noticeable. The B team is where he played most games and that is a large enough sample space to judge him by, except he actually did rather poor in all of them.

 

[Sumlit]

Well I don't know what to tell you man. We're clearly seeing different things. I think you're give way more merit to Thiago's game than what it deserves.
If he was really that good this year to the point where he was the best player on the pitch in some games, he would have played much more. It is hard not to play a player when he is, according to you, so evidently superior on the pitch.

The crumbles under pressure comment was referring to Bojan, not Thiago. I think Thiago has a little of that in him though, his game completely changes after he commits a mistake. But maybe that's just inexperience.

 

[Sumlit]

Your views are exactly what i was referring originally. Most people here have an overly high opinion of Thiago, while an overly low opinion of Roberto. In reality the gap is not so wide, IMO.

 

[DonAndres]

Watch those games and see for yourself, there's really no denying that he was a standout player. I'm not saying he was absolutely godlike amazing every single time he touched the ball, but he was much better with the 1st team than some people are giving him credit for, and he was very influential during his games. He had some bad errors and he did have some games where he was less than impressive but he's much more talented than Roberto. After the u21 tournament is when outside fans started hyping him up, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse to say that he is only rated highly because of that and not because of his performances at Barca. Also, he didn't get as much game time because he obviously doesn't have seniority over guys like Xavi, Iniesta, etc. which is as important to Tito as performance.

To me, Roberto can develop and fix the lack of edge in his game but sitting on the bench at Barca isn't how he would do that. With the B team he wasn't playing well or developing further, with the first team he won't get enough game time to change. A loan was the best option, he could get the trust and playing time he requires to come out of his shell and work to become a much better player. However he seems intent on fighting to stay at Barca when really that wouldn't help him in the long run. The one thing I do admire about Roberto is that he has potential to be a good all round player, which would be very useful to the squad. Like anyone, he could possibly become a starter but the odds really are against it, especially with the way things are going.

 

[Sumlit]

I watched every game of the past season, and I stand by what I said. Thiago was considerably better and more influential with U21 than with Barca. I say this, while also telling you I was a proponent for Thiago to share minutes with Xavi because I felt the positives he could bring the team could outweigh the negatives at first, as he worked out his kinks with experience.
I also think losing him is a big loss.
However I also feel he is rated much higher than he deserves at this point. That is not saying he is not good, he is in fact very good.

 

[Galning]

It's only logical that he'll be better and more influential playing against guys of his age then playing with the first team.

 

[El Anti-Galactico]

Count me as one who has not been particularly in love with Thiago's first team play. There was one game (forget the opponent) where he was spectacular. Others, less so. Giving the ball up easy just kills this team.

 

[Ursegor]

This young lad will beast it up next season.

 

[abual3bed1]

I wish he does.

 

[SwiftGuyver]

he might not be capable of the spectacular like Thiago but i'd say he's more reliable and does the simple stuff very well which Thiago often forgot IMO.