State of La Liga

[Guardian]

Atletico and Valencia have improved imo.
Valencia may have lost Mata, but they signed Piatti and also they strengthened their defence with Rami. They also have found a solution for the GK problem, Diego Alves was solid for Almeria.
Atletico snapped Falcao, and he is capable of doing even a better job than Aguero. They also got the star of Turkish football, Turan, and Adrian, who has got potential and could be a great sub

Villarreal, Sevilla may look weaker than previous seasons, but then you have Malaga and Bilbao, who are improving step by step and I wouldn't be surprised if they win European spots for the next season.

Problem is not the quality, it's the differentiation of certain groups. Real and Barcelona are from different league, they are too strong. we can qualify Valencia and Atletico in their own league too, or at least on paper they look much stronger than the rest. This will be the top 4 (well, Atletico are used to choke though). Sevilla, Villarreal, Bilbao and now Malaga will be competing for European football. One of them may reach the CL, but it would be a huge surprise for me. All the rest will be looking to guarantee their Premiera statue, Espanyol, Getafe, Zaragoza will be closer to the top teams.

So yes, it's predictable, but when you take a look at the other leagues, you can see that it is the same situation there

 

[Sergio]

As for the competitiviness of La Liga, well, I do not really mind if the 3rd placed team is 20 to 30 points behind the 2nd placed as long as that 2nd placed team is called Real Madrid.

I do not mind the lopsided competition so much, but I would definitely like Valencia and Atletico to be stronger. But fact of the matter is that it is not only due to the schewed TV revenue deals that those 2 teams are far below par, they also have themselves to blame. Their story for the past few years or so, has been one of consecutive blunders.

As for competing with the EPL, then we have to acknowledge a very crude and important fact. The EPL has been lucky enough to attract Mr. Roman Abrahmovic and the oil Arabs. So let's make a simple mind experiment.

Say that Roman abondons Chelsea with its debts, and instead buys Atletico and pumps as much money into them, as he did with Chelski. Then the Arabs tire of Man Citeh, and buy Espanyol instead?

Then please tell me, what league will be more powerful? And more competitive? Under such a scenario, La Liga would totally dominate Europe.

Imagine then that the EPL would be totally dominated by Man Utd, the second power would be the current Arsenal (imagine that) with Loserpool 3rd. Whereas La Liga would have Barca, Madrid, and massively rich Atletico and Espanyol, with Malaga, Valencia and Villarreal following far behind.

In any case, as long as Barca kicks serious ass in Europe, I care little about anything else.

This is the most pointless thing I have ever read. Essentially all you have said here is English clubs have rich people owning them so the clubs are rich. But (hypothetically) if those rich owners left England for Spain then Spanish clubs would be wealthy. Very insightful once again dalitis, many thanks.

 

[No Soy Galáctico]

Yea, I lost interest after that too. Unless Villarreal, Sevilla, Valencia, Atletico Madrid fix their finances they’ll still be bitches to the oil rich clubs of the world, or at the very least too far behind Barca or Madrid. Fortunately for us, our Presidents of the time bought land that would one day be sold to pay for the debt we built in the 90’s and became beyond what could be maintainable. A smarter step forward than selling our young stars.

Valencia can’t even sell the Mestalla off, what a dump of an area that is. Atletico’s stadium is squeezed in between the river Manzanares and the M30 motorway deep in the industrial heart of Madrid. A lot of Spanish football clubs formed and set up by the working class that never really intended to have to become global businesses to battle for survival of the fittest.

 

[dalitis8]

This is the most pointless thing I have ever read. Essentially all you have said here is English clubs have rich people owning them so the clubs are rich. But (hypothetically) if those rich owners left England for Spain then Spanish clubs would be wealthy. Very insightful once again dalitis, many thanks.

That is the main source of the current power of that particular league. That is precisely my point. They also generate good matchday revenues and have lucrative TV deals. But tha main thing that pumps up the EPL is the Russian oligarch and the Arabs.

There is nothing more to it, than that. I do not see a claim in my post that claims to be a radical new theory.

But, as simple as it is. Many people fail to see this very crude reality, and start mumbling on about tactics, about history, about managers, about football schools, about canteras and blah blah blah blah.

This story has been repeated a million times at least on this forum.

A function of false consciousness, is to mystify reality (the function of my post was demystifying one). And to defend my post, well, I have not seen any other post approaching the question is such str8forward terms.

Even though it is as crude as it sounds, it hardly ever acknowledged.

Oh, and btw, I did not say that Man City and Chelsea are simply rich, they are 2 of the strongest sides in Europe. But you failed to see that.

 

[La Furia]

Plenty of clubs manage to market that "working class" image very well though. Look at Boca Juniors, you can smell the pollution from the Matanza from inside La Bombonera and if you walk around the stadium at night alone you will probably get shanked.

You wouldn't want to bring your children to a Roma match, and England's strongest clubs are located in the industrial north.


The Vicente Calderon is a shithole, but that's not why Atletico hasn't been successful. That can be credited to the Gil family.


Valencia can't sell the Mestalla off because Spain has no economy right now.

 

[dalitis8]

Plenty of clubs manage to market that "working class" image very well though. Look at Boca Juniors, you can smell the pollution from the Matanza from inside La Bombonera and if you walk around the stadium at night alone you will probably get shanked.

You wouldn't want to bring your children to a Roma match, and England's strongest clubs are located in the industrial north.


The Vicente Calderon is a shithole, but that's not why Atletico hasn't been successful. That can be credited to the Gil family.


Valencia can't sell the Mestalla off because Spain has no economy right now.

who does?

 

[No Soy Galáctico]

This will all soon become irrelevant as UEFA rules stipulate that from next year no club will be allowed to participate in uefa competitions unless they comply with the sanctions made over money investment caps. They set the first year maximum at €40m. Teams affected include Inter, City, Liverpool, Chelsea ect. So the likes of Getafe and Malaga can spend millions over the next 2 years, but unlike Man City they wouldn’t be allowed to play Champions League football until they paid it back. Hopefully the last of their generation.

 

[La Furia]

Malaga is doing everything right, I can see them stabilizing quickly. An owner willing to invest in the area and not just the team, they already got a partnership with UNESCO going to try and promote Malaga as more than a British tourist filled shithole.

I even get custom facebook ads for Malaga because of the Pellegrini factor and my recent activity in Chile.

who does?

Oh we are all fucked, but Spain is worse than most. Plus they bet everything on their construction bubble, making the Mestalla situation even worse.

 

[dalitis8]

This will all soon become irrelevant as UEFA rules stipulate that from next year no club will be allowed to participate in uefa competitions unless they comply with the sanctions made over money investment caps. They set the first year maximum at €40m. Teams affected include Inter, City, Liverpool, Chelsea ect. So the likes of Getafe and Malaga can spend millions over the next 2 years, but unlike Man City they wouldn’t be allowed to play Champions League football until they paid it back. Hopefully the last of their generation.

But will those reules be strictly enforced?

Citeh are already trying to bend them...hopefully UEFA are dead serious on this...

 

[No Soy Galáctico]

Malaga is doing everything right, I can see them stabilizing quickly. An owner willing to invest in the area and not just the team, they already got a partnership with UNESCO going to try and promote Malaga as more than a British tourist filled shithole.

I even get custom facebook ads for Malaga because of the Pellegrini factor and my recent activity in Chile.



Oh we are all fucked, but Spain is worse than most. Plus they bet everything on their construction bubble, making the Mestalla situation even worse.

Good luck to them.

Valencia’s Nou Mestalla situation is a shambles. It’s costing them money they don’t have to keep a concrete shell stood up and apparently is still a year away from completion.

 

[La Furia]

The Nou Mestalla is an economic black hole. Shame, in different circumstances it could have been a great stadium instead of a weight keeping Valencia down.

Juan Soler had got to be one of the worst owners of all time.

 

[No Soy Galáctico]

But will those reules be strictly enforced?

Citeh are already trying to bend them...hopefully UEFA are dead serious on this...

If they spend much more of their time and efforts enforcing touch line bans then no, sadly I foresee it being voted out or loopholed around.

 

[No Soy Galáctico]

Every time they say goodbye, La Liga dies a little. Now Juan Mata has signed for Chelsea from Valencia, just as Sergio Aguero signed for Manchester City from Atlético Madrid. For fans of City and Chelsea, the transfers are fantastically exciting, two great additions to two teams aspiring to win the Premier League. For the Spanish league, they are frightening. Despite the injection of around 75 million euros, the transfers are confirmation of a worrisome trend.
In truth, Aguero wanted to go to Real Madrid. In the end, he signed for City. Mata had hoped for the chance to join Barcelona. He signed for Chelsea. Together their moves are symbolic of an inescapable reality: Spain's best players now aspire to join one of the big two or leave the country altogether. When they do, the gap widens in Spain and the opportunity to close it fades. The super strong get stronger, while the others cannot compete. La Liga is a two-horse race but not because the rest are a bunch of donkeys. And yet bit by bit they get weakened, the inequality becomes more entrenched.
It has always been this way, and not just in Spain. It's only natural: big fish eats little fish. The standout players at other clubs have long since gravitated to Madrid or Barcelona and it would be wise not to overreact; departures do not necessarily signal impending doom.
Valencia sold their best two players last summer and returned to the Champions League positions, rebuilding cleverly. They have history too: When they won the league in 2003, it was after selling Gaizka Mendieta, Claudio López and Gerard. They constructed a fantastically competitive squad last summer and have moved astutely this year, signing Parejo, Piatti and Canales.
Julio Baptista left Sevilla for Real Madrid in 2005, having scored 50 goals in the previous two seasons. The following season, with the Beast no longer on their team, Sevilla won the UEFA Cup. The year after they won another UEFA Cup, the Copa del Rey, and the European Super Cup, and went into the final day of the season with a chance of winning the league. Fernando Torres walked out of Atlético Madrid in 2007. He had always refused to join Madrid and Barcelona wasn't interested so he went to Liverpool. The following season, Atlético returned to the Champions League for the first time in 11 years.
None of that means the problem is not real, though. Though they were able to finish third last season, Valencia ended 21 points behind second-place Real Madrid. And when Atlético finally returned to the Champions League in 2008, they were led by Sergio Aguero. For the last three or four years Aguero could make a convincing case to be the best player in Spain, not at Madrid or Barcelona. So, inevitably, he tried to go to Madrid. He was, though, at the wrong club: Atlético's visceral refusal to sell to their rivals forced him to go abroad.
He was hardly going to stay. Why would the best players stay? How could they? A tipping point has been reached and players know that: Unless they are at one of the big two, they cannot seriously expect to compete for trophies. And, unlike before, the social, political historical and economic differences -- dealt with in parts I, II and III -- mean that it is hard to see that situation ever changing. Money has become a greater determinant than ever. A combined league table from the last three seasons reads: Barcelona 282 points; Madrid 266; Valencia 204; Sevilla 191; Villarreal 183; Atlético 172.
Madrid and Barcelona, whose stranglehold on the league and other clubs is absolute, have no intention of redistributing talent, wealth or opportunity. There is no concept of the league as the product; the LFP is a loose, disparate collection of clubs with wildly different interests, each looking out for their own in which two clubs beat the rest every time.
Look at that three-year league table again: Each of the 'other' four has lost their best players in the last three years. Their destination: The big two or a different country, a different league. Aguero is just another example. Dani Alves left Sevilla for Barcelona. Valencia has lost David Silva, David Villa (to Barcelona) and, now, Juan Mata. Atlético has lost Aguero and Forlán is about to go too (although the signing of Falcao is tremendously exciting). Villarreal has just lost Santi Cazorla. Last season's outstanding performer beyond the big two was striker Giuseppe Rossi (he wanted a move to Barcelona but, in the end, wasn't able to get it).
Over the last five years, if you had to compile a list of the five best players in Spain outside Real Madrid and Barcelona, it would almost certainly read: David Villa, David Silva, Sergio Aguero, Dani Alves and Diego Forlán. Only Forlán is where he was -- and not for much longer. It goes deeper too. When Sergio Canales burst onto the scene with Racing Santander, it was electrifying. Here was a genuinely special player, destined for great things. Within a year, Madrid had swept him up. A year after that, having had little genuine use for him, they tossed him out on loan -- so long as he does not play against them.
Mata's departure means that every one of Valencia's World Cup winners have gone. When Spain won the 2008 European Championships, Valencia had four players in the squad, Villarreal three, Barcelona three and Real Madrid two. Two years later, when Spain won the World Cup, that list had changed, largely because of signings. It read: Barcelona seven, Real Madrid five, Valencia two, Villarreal one. The two Valencia players, Villa and Silva, had completed moves before the tournament was even finished.
In 2010-2011, the soccer statisticians Opta put together an objective stats-based team of the season. Of the outfield players, only Juan Mata (Valencia) and Santi Cazorla (Villarreal) did not play for Madrid and Barcelona. Now, they have both left. Cazorla, who would have been Villarreal's second player in South Africa but for injury, has moved for possibly $19M -- a move that helps to explain Villarreal's ability to resist bids for Rossi and keep him at the Madrigal. For now.
There was interest from England -- Liverpool and Chelsea both contemplated moves -- but the truth is neither Barcelona nor Madrid wanted Cazorla. There is a glimmer of hope, a shout of ambition, about his signing. He has moved to Málaga but he hasn't moved on from Spain.
Backed by huge investment, Málaga is a club that can keep players in Spain -- one that, in the long term, may be able to alter the landscape a little, shoving a spoke or two in the wheels of the big two. This summer they have, if in a minor way, bucked the trend. Many would reject it, but in signing Cazorla, there was a hint of something else: a hint that Málaga isn't just doing it for themselves, but for everyone else too. For La Liga.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...24/Juan.Mata.La.Liga/index.html#ixzz1Vy9afAa1

 

[Andrew M]

Spain have most of the elite players in the world in their league, one of the best teams of all time, the two strongest teams in europe and Spain are European and World Champions.


Could be much worse.

Things aren't exactly hunky dory in England either, you know. As is the case in Spain, the talent is pulled to where the money is. Fabregas, the league's best midfielder, has left. Nasri has gone to City, as will Modric to Chelsea I expect.

Torres left to Chelsea, and if Suarez continues to improve and Liverpool don't progress, he will leave too.


Parochial English football fans may say they have a competitive top 6, but so does Spain. It might be marginally stronger in England, but the elite in Spain is stronger.

The national team sucks as usual, too.

 

[oz187]

The comparisons with the premier league are a bit overblown. There's 4 top sides in England with Spurs and Liverpool also doing reasonably well. Spain has Barca and Real, at the top, but then 4 established quality sides in Valencia, Sevilla, Villarreal and Atletico Madrid. Bilbao and Malaga are now also looking more competitive. I'd say they are relatively comparable overall.

We'll have to see how Atletico fare with the changes, but then the same applies to Arsenal. As for Valencia, well they coped well without Villa and Silva, so losing Mata may could be very manageable for them. Once they get this Stadium issue sorted though, then they should be able to rebuild as a challenger for the title.

In the longer term, there is a more collective media arrangement coming in where Barca and Real will see their share cut from 50% to 34%. Sure they'll still be the biggest by a long way, but it should take things in a more competitive and stable direction.