I
instinct
Guest
Didn't Paulinho sign in Tottenham or is the deal not done yet?
Transfers and Rumours - old thread
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
B
beautifulgame
Guest
XaviMessiGirl
New member
Yeah, who knows if we'll end up buying another midfielder if (when) Thiago leaves, but most of those players I wouldn't mind seeing in Barca.
Mr Hulot
New member
I wonder why you rate Paulinho so high? I ask you because I remember you praising him before the tournament as one of the best players in his position or something like that.He seems to struggle passing the ball in my opinion and he is with Luis Gustavo one of the main reasons that Brazil play uninspired football. Is he that much better in his club?
B
beautifulgame
Guest
Like Vidal, Paulinho is a very complete player. Both can do everything, when I say everything, I do mean everything.
When you say that he struggles to pass the ball, I'm not sure I understand. Do you have a specific game or moment in mind? If so, please share so we can discuss further. I believe he is a fine passer of the ball, I mean see his pass on the play to Neymar on the first goal against Uruguay for example. For club he has a slightly more attacking role where he can use a bit more creativity and passing skill as well.
I don't think Brazil football is uninspired and this may be the reason we are at a disagreement in the first place. I think they are well on their way and with a bit more work will look like a favorite with Spain. However, I imagine your referring to what Pele and others are calling a gap from midfield to the attack? In this case, Brazil are lacking a bit of organization at the moment but their football doesn't require a dominant passer such as Pirlo or Xavi even though, if they wanted they can bring a more dominant passer onto the pitch. If anything, this will be resolved with through getting their lines a bit more compact.
This conversation about midfielders is outdated in my opinion. See Del Bosque's from the press after the Nigeria match where he responds to question's about his reliance on Jordi Alba to score with these words: "this is football we like. We are all defenders, we are all midfielders, we are all attackers." What he is alluding to and what Guardiola brought to the masses are conceptions of football that are more sophisticated than the ideas behind the rhetoric that distinguishes between midfielders, attackers, and defenders; as well as the ideas behind the obsession of formations. To understand his words one must be familiar that a teams shape is not realized in a formation of 10 outfield players, but rather the four players the constitute the 'Rombo' at any given moment, defensively and offensively. Let us examine the offensive bit since that is has been the departure point for this conversation, on rombo or rhomboid shape of four persons is a formation where the ones duties are designated by his/her place in the rombo. At any given moment then, the person on the highest end of the rombo is the forward, this person changes because in the rombo the players constantly rotate. In Barca, the latter three would then become supporting midfielders or defenders. In this respect, we can see football has evolved past ideas of a is midfielder vs. attacker and we can see now the real importance for players that can do everything, such as pass, defend, beat their markers, score, and even fight.
As a point of reference, Barca plays with two three rombos across the pitch. So they effectively attack with two, support with six and defend with two. However, when they are at their best the personnel that fill those roles consistently shift. At any given point Iniesta, Messi or even Pique can be a forward, defender or midfielder and will have to carry out those duties.
The value of players like Paulinho and Vidal then is sky high at the moment. The reason South America and most notably Brasil produce many of these players that can effectively play all the roles (and yes Neymar can too) is they learn in their early years with futsal, which requires you learn all of these roles and the rombo shape. It is no coincidence that Brasil and Spain having the best two futsal leagues in the world and having effectively integrated futsal (in Brasil you often play only futsal till a certain age, as well as in clubs like River in Argentina that develop great players, Spain has taken this up as well as France and some other Euro countries) also create technical, all around players.
When you say that he struggles to pass the ball, I'm not sure I understand. Do you have a specific game or moment in mind? If so, please share so we can discuss further. I believe he is a fine passer of the ball, I mean see his pass on the play to Neymar on the first goal against Uruguay for example. For club he has a slightly more attacking role where he can use a bit more creativity and passing skill as well.
I don't think Brazil football is uninspired and this may be the reason we are at a disagreement in the first place. I think they are well on their way and with a bit more work will look like a favorite with Spain. However, I imagine your referring to what Pele and others are calling a gap from midfield to the attack? In this case, Brazil are lacking a bit of organization at the moment but their football doesn't require a dominant passer such as Pirlo or Xavi even though, if they wanted they can bring a more dominant passer onto the pitch. If anything, this will be resolved with through getting their lines a bit more compact.
This conversation about midfielders is outdated in my opinion. See Del Bosque's from the press after the Nigeria match where he responds to question's about his reliance on Jordi Alba to score with these words: "this is football we like. We are all defenders, we are all midfielders, we are all attackers." What he is alluding to and what Guardiola brought to the masses are conceptions of football that are more sophisticated than the ideas behind the rhetoric that distinguishes between midfielders, attackers, and defenders; as well as the ideas behind the obsession of formations. To understand his words one must be familiar that a teams shape is not realized in a formation of 10 outfield players, but rather the four players the constitute the 'Rombo' at any given moment, defensively and offensively. Let us examine the offensive bit since that is has been the departure point for this conversation, on rombo or rhomboid shape of four persons is a formation where the ones duties are designated by his/her place in the rombo. At any given moment then, the person on the highest end of the rombo is the forward, this person changes because in the rombo the players constantly rotate. In Barca, the latter three would then become supporting midfielders or defenders. In this respect, we can see football has evolved past ideas of a is midfielder vs. attacker and we can see now the real importance for players that can do everything, such as pass, defend, beat their markers, score, and even fight.
As a point of reference, Barca plays with two three rombos across the pitch. So they effectively attack with two, support with six and defend with two. However, when they are at their best the personnel that fill those roles consistently shift. At any given point Iniesta, Messi or even Pique can be a forward, defender or midfielder and will have to carry out those duties.
The value of players like Paulinho and Vidal then is sky high at the moment. The reason South America and most notably Brasil produce many of these players that can effectively play all the roles (and yes Neymar can too) is they learn in their early years with futsal, which requires you learn all of these roles and the rombo shape. It is no coincidence that Brasil and Spain having the best two futsal leagues in the world and having effectively integrated futsal (in Brasil you often play only futsal till a certain age, as well as in clubs like River in Argentina that develop great players, Spain has taken this up as well as France and some other Euro countries) also create technical, all around players.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
I know, but it still feels wrong
Well, we have our very talented La Masia youngsters so its probably better to groom them to take over for the current players
Mr Hulot
New member
We have to agree to disagree here to be honest.
Brazil seems to me at the moment like a team that relies in set pieces and individual moments of brilliance from their attacking players rather than a solid gameplan. Their most reliable passers are Marcelo and Dani Alves, plus the centre backs try way to many long balls towards Fred. I find Paulinho in particular susceptible under high pressing, as he needs a lot of time with the ball to play a forward pass and he seems too eager for my liking to pass the ball backwards.
Anyway, football is a matter of taste after all and you obviously like the way this Brazil side is playing or the potential that the team shows for next year, I personally enjoy Barcelona's "tiki taka" and there are every day more and more fans that are vocal against it, as they find it boring.
Cruijffista
SOY ANTIMADRIDISTA
Apparently Sanllehi is in Brazil to see if a deal is possible for Thiago Silva.
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
I know it is not going to happen this year, but we should seriously consider signing Gündoğan before RM grabs him (reportedly in 2014).
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
I'm reading Carlo wants to bring Pirlo to Madrid
Other names on his list: Vidal, Illarramendi, Kondogbia, Paulinho, Verratti, Gundogan
Source: CdS but they quote As
With Isco, Suarez and possibly Bale joining them, coupling with Ronaldo and Özil, Real Madrid will give us a run for our money next season.
How come RM has so much money to spend on transfers??
ThwiX
Best midfielder around
Isco, Suarez and Bale in the same transfer window? It's strange how they are never criticized for buying their way to success and trophies like Chelsea and Manchester City.With Isco, Suarez and possibly Bale joining them, coupling with Ronaldo and Özil, Real Madrid will give us a run for our money next season.
How come RM has so much money to spend on transfers??
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Because of the whole big club myth,apparently if a team doesn't have much history but has a reach owner who wants to build for the future can be criticized ,but teams like RM or man utd (or even us at some times) who was considered big clubs for so long can spend whatever they want
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
With Isco, Suarez and possibly Bale joining them, coupling with Ronaldo and Özil, Real Madrid will give us a run for our money next season.
How come RM has so much money to spend on transfers??
No matter how much money they splash in the window, I'll never be worried by Madrid bc our philosophy has and always will see us through.
How in the hell are they going to get Ronaldo and Bale on the pitch at the same time? What, move Ronaldo to the right and Bale on the left? Furthermore, if they do that they are going to need a big man to head the ball down and Suarez isn't that kind of striker.
Their transfer strategy is a joke, and I'd love to see how Ancelotti will handle that many egos. With Ronaldo, Isco, Suarez, Ozil, Diva Maria (if he isn't sold), Benzema, Modric and Bale all on the same squad, I'm sure there will be some divides in the locker room (particularly with Ozil and Benzema if they lose their spots).
I'm not sold on Bale fitting in at all at Madrid either.
Money can't buy titles, the only transfer Madrid need to make is getting that idiot Perez out of office. The sooner they get someone who actually gives a fuck about football and not making money, the better.
Ancelotti is a great coach, but he is walking into a complete mess of a club.
Jadentheman
Active member
Alves is far from a good passer. Have you seen his crosses!? Anyways gotta agree on the individual brilliance thing, but Brazil has always relied on that type of thing since forever. The midfield is the biggest issue and for sure will be dominated this Sunday against Spain.
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