UEFA Champions League 2015/16

[BBZ8800]

I'll quote from Pep's topic, since this is more suited topic for this:

Atletico got balls. They are not scared of anyone.

The whole better team than us is a bit extreme but I agree to some extent. Madrid just like last season and in 2014 final will find a way to beat Atleti. Atleti dominates them in the league but Real always beat them in cup competitions. Although I wouldn't count Bayern out just yet. But even if they make the final, Pep is probably gonna field some dumbass lineup and lose the final.

Its just not right but life isn't always meant to be fair.

I am not saying that the history is ALWAYS repeating, but numerous times in club and NT tournaments, it happened that "a minor" team beats everyone in quarters and semis and they play excellent, brave and everything and then they suddenly totally crumble in the final (against an experienced team).

Especially if "a minor" team already failed once or a few times in the final (which Atletico did, against Real 2 years ago).

In 2000', Valencia played the same as Atletico today (maybe even better).
They totally demolished Lazio (Lazio was like Chelsea or Psg today, extremely rich and Italian Champion, in the days when Seria A was the best league in Europe) with 5:2 and 0:1.

In semis, Valencia demolished (Van Gaal's, Rivaldo's and Figo's) Barca with 4:1 and 1:2.
They were flying all over the field in group stage, querters and semis.
A video of highlights of Valencia vs Barca 1st leg in semis 2000':

They looked like lions and as if they played on drugs versus Lazio and Barca.

And then, the classic story, everything is good till the finals, and then a smaller team usually crashes, or have insanely bad luck or whatever.
And big boys win in majority of matches.

Cl final in 2000: Real vs Valencia.
Instead of brave lions, Valencia turned into a team of mice. They couldn't create 2 decent passes, they were scared as f*ck:
(Real Madrid was poor in La liga, as always. Deportivo a champion, Barca 2nd, Valencia 3rd, Real 5th on the table.
But as always, Real turns a crappy season into a CL title...)

Imo, Atletico can knock out EVERYONE in Quarters and semis, but in a final, they will burn out again.
So, if we don't want to see Real winning it, our only chances are City and Bayern...

 

[BBZ8800]

Oh, and an interesting fact:
= Real Madrid always plays like a crap in La liga when they win a CL
= they have some kind of a momentum/luck in April/May and even though they played like a crap for 10 Months, they win a CL in the end

1998:
-- Real 4th in La Liga
= Real wins a CL

2000:
-- Real 5th in La Liga
= Real wins a CL in the end

2002:
-- Real 3rd in La Liga
= Real wins a CL

2014:
-- Real 3rd in La liga
= Real wins a CL

2016:
-- Real ?? in La Liga
-- we will see what will happen in a CL

We should call this "Real Madrid's style".
You play like a crap for 10 Months and you win a CL in the end.

While Real is extremely lucky sometimes, our boys should take a lesson from them also.
If you can't be in form for 12 Months, then it is better to be in form in March-April-May, then what our guys are usually doing (Neymar, I am pointing at you also) when their form peaks in October, November or December

 

[Alik]

While Real is extremely lucky sometimes, our boys should take a lesson from them also.
If you can't be in form for 12 Months, then it is better to be in form in March-April-May, then what our guys are usually doing (Neymar, I am pointing at you also) when their form peaks in October, November or December

Depends on what the goal is. I would rather win the Liga and CdR, than to come 3rd/4th/5th and win CL.

I also don't see how you can say that the only chances of Real getting knocked out are by City and Bayern. Anyways, we'll see. A perfect final would be Atletico vs City.

 

[Jamie Cal]

Pep is the most overrated manager of our time

because he lost 1-0, to the hardest team in the world to beat, in their best form, and in their pitch? cool m8.

 

[BBZ8800]

Depends on what the goal is. I would rather win the Liga and CdR, than to come 3rd/4th/5th and win CL.

I also don't see how you can say that the only chances of Real getting knocked out are by City and Bayern. Anyways, we'll see. A perfect final would be Atletico vs City.

I personally have zero interest in Cdr, the same as probably 90%+ of football fans around the world (both for their domestic cup competitions and for cup competitions in Spain, England, Italy, Germany, France). Probably only footy fans from England care about their Fa Cup, and of course, die-hard fans of every club are looking at their favorite team's cup competition as something special...
But anyway, for me is: CL trophy > (multiple times more important) than La liga (with or without + Cdr)

 

[Jamie Cal]

Only 2 teams ever have retained the domestic double - Atletic in the 30's, us in the 50's - wouldn't play down what a big achievement it is.

 

[DrPepper]

Fraudiola confirmed once again. Dude still can't win an away CL knockout match. When was the last time again? Three years ago, against 10 men Arsenal with Özil missing a penalty at 0-0 and Robben diving to get their player sent off. And that's with opposition such as Porto, Moyes United, Shakhtar and Benfica. 7 consecutive semi finals my ass. Reason he gets so far every year is they face scrub teams and play the decisive second leg at home 99 % of the time. Lucho in 2 seasons with Barca has already the same number of knockout stage away wins than Pep "the best and most innovative manager of all time" Guardiola.

 

[diDi7]

Fraudiola confirmed once again. Dude still can't win an away CL knockout match. When was the last time again? Three years ago, against 10 men Arsenal with Özil missing a penalty at 0-0 and Robben diving to get their player sent off. And that's with opposition such as Porto, Moyes United, Shakhtar and Benfica. 7 consecutive semi finals my ass. Reason he gets so far every year is they face scrub teams and play the decisive second leg at home 99 % of the time. Lucho in 2 seasons with Barca has already the same number of knockout stage away wins than Pep "the best and most innovative manager of all time" Guardiola.

It's a pretty strange phenomenon though. I mean, why on earth? Why does his away record look so atrocious? What does a manager have that specifically influences the results of away games? I just don't get how it is such an extended issue with him.

 

[Darko]

Real has no chance if they meet Atletico in the final, no chance.

 

[BBZ8800]

Only 2 teams ever have retained the domestic double - Atletic in the 30's, us in the 50's - wouldn't play down what a big achievement it is.

Cup was somewhat important till middle 90's while there was still a cup winners cup as an important international cup.

And in those days we had champions cup with (only) 32 teams (1 team per country) with knockout matches with only 4 knockout rounds (32 teams, 16 teams, quarters, semis, a final) and back then there weren't too many of international matches like today (qualifying rounds, group stage of a CL, 1/8, quarters, semis, a final).
Also, in the 90's Uefa introduced a system of Champions league with 2 rounds of group stages and then quarters, semis and a final.
So, in those years, Barca, Real and other teams played 6+6+2+2+1=16-17 matches (without qualifying rounds) in Europe in some years.
Add qualifying rounds, supercups, NT teams, and La Liga with 38 matches, and since all the money was coming from Champions league, teams started to save all their energy mostly for Champions league, as a most prestige tournament (prestige and insane amounts of money).
After that, they invested energy in a domestic La liga, since that is the most important domestic tournament and through La liga you are again earning places for Champions league (a chance to earn new amounts of money and prestige in the next year).

Somewhere around that time (middle of 90's), a phenomenon started in all big leagues (Italy, Spain, Germany, England etc) that teams started to care less and less about the domestic cup and majority of top teams used a cup for playing squad players or youngsters (and 2-3 starters), and teams played with best players only in semis and finals and/or if they were poor in La liga/Champions league, so Cdr (and other domestic cups in other countries) were the only remaining trophy, so they tried to save the season to some extent in a cup.

Domestic cup became so meaningless for a majority of teams and supporters after that, that even Uefa abandoned their Cup winner's cup.
And since domestic cups became too irrelevant, Uefa tried to bring back some prestige (and at least some importance to national cups) by giving a Uefa's league spot to a winner of domestic cup tournaments.

Again, since the fixtures were so crowded with 38 La liga matches, Nt matches and 15-16 (plus qualifying rounds) Champions league matches, and since the earnings in cup were the lowest, teams didn't care about the cup too much.

I don't if people remember this situation from 2000:
Van Gaal's Barca had a clash of fixtures between cup and NT matches and didn't have enough of available players at all to play a match, lol:
"Note: Barcelona failed to play the second leg due to a fixture clash with UEFA international matches, which left Barcelona with only seven first team players. The competition rules at the time for the Copa del Rey allowed sides a maximum of three youth players per match, leaving Barcelona with a squad of ten players for the return leg against Atlético de Madrid. The ten Barcelona players refused to take to the field as a protest against the Spanish FA (RFEF), thus forfeiting the match."

This case also says enough about the national cup in modern days and how "important" it is :/

 

[Yannik]

[tw]725425116075679744[/tw]

 

[Jamie Cal]

Good post. I remember Man United in 2000 abandoned the FA Cup to play the World Championships. Sparked uproar in England.

I largely don't care about it, but the likelihood is that we'll play Atletico or Real most years and we never want to lose face against either, especially a final. With the 2 legs, we should be going through against anyone else most times.

 

[Galning]

If you can't be in form for 12 Months, then it is better to be in form in March-April-May, then what our guys are usually doing (Neymar, I am pointing at you also) when their form peaks in October, November or December

Players don't decide when they are in or out of form. It's the manager's job to have them in form when it matters.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

The Copa matters because the spanish league is incredibly strong

Two-cup systems are terrible though.

 

[Aryagorn]

Spain should consider making the Copa a one leg affair.... 2 leg system not only ruins chances of the smaller teams but also burn down the bigger team players making it tougher to compete in Europe. I mean there's a good reason English are so terrible in Europe, apart from them being piss poor themselves by default of course!

And Spain should consider getting that extra cash somehow.... Strip off the additional matches in the stupid Copa and instead concentrate on having friendlies abroad to try and increase the revenue! It at least brings you extra money that way