Valencia

[Andrew M]

DonAndres, I see that you have moderated your position rather. You see that Valencia have done very well is unfavourable circumstances.


BXI Futbol, Valencia would get less money if the rights were re-distributed.

 

[DonAndres]

DonAndres, I'm afraid your point about Valencia not wanting to break the duopoly enough ignores the fact that it is absolutely impossible to break the duopoly as long as the general conditions stay the same. You said in a previous post that effective 2014 there will be a new TV rights deal that is slightly better. Do you have any exact figures for that? Because right now the difference between 1 & 2 (Barca and Madrid) and 3 (Valencia) is about 100 million. A "slightly better" deal does not inspire a shred of confidence that it will be enough to cause any meaningful change and create conditions for the breaking of the duopoly.

It is not a matter of Valencia "not wanting it enough", it is simply a matter of the two biggest clubs having a financial stranglehold on the league which makes it so that even the club with the best resources available to break the duopoly is simply unable to due to massive debt and gross imbalance between their TV revenue and Barca's and Madrid's. Until a fair TV rights deal is in place no team will have even a small chance at realistically challenging for the league title. Again, I would be very interested in seeing the actual numbers for the new TV deal, I have a feeling it will be enough to shut everyone up for a bit while not being nearly enough of a difference to actually lead to any any meaningful change in the duopoly.

I find that it's not always to do with conditions of the TV deal but the footballing aspect of it as well. Atletico have just as horrendous conditions in it, but they were able to hold onto second place for most of the season before falling and win the CDR. As Atletico grow and improve their squad, they'll get closer and closer and end up making more money in the process to reduce that financial disadvantage. With this attitude and desire to grow, they'll improve the financial situation and the squad, making them closer to breaking the duopoly.

The actual figures of the new TV deal doesn't signal tiny unnoticeable change but something that's actually decent for a first step in improvement. Barcelona and Madrid will have their share of the rights reduced from 50% to 34% (which I find to be promising for a first step). The income gap between the largest and smallest earning clubs goes from 130% to 70%. The only thing is that the shares are spread more to the lower table teams rather than teams in 3rd or 4th place so it doesn't exactly help Valencia. In fact I believe Valencia and Atletico drop from 13% to 11% which I find stupid because it does little in bridging the gap to weaken the closest contenders.

But Valencia can't always rely on those TV revenues can they? Even if the deal were to be massively fixed, it wouldn't make Barca or Madrid much weaker and it wouldn't make Valencia much stronger. They need to focus on internally raising money to compete. The funds coming from the Joma sponsorship are better than Kappa, but still not much money. Plus they'd be getting much more money getting to the later stages of the CL or CDR rather than losing out early. Valencia need to up their publicity to get the necessary funds and frankly a lot of that works in correlation. Advancing more in tournaments will get them more revenues, and the increased media coverage will help them get better sponsors and investors, not to mention the fact that they could make the club a more global name whether it be player advertisements or setting up friendlies. A lot of the money comes from making a bigger name for themselves on the footballing stage, and to do that they need to put in a lot of effort. Looking at a problem as if it is impossible to solve will do nothing, as opposed to looking at it pragmatically and finding ways to make things work in their favor.

 

[Cule4life]

Your view on the Arsenal situation is much too simplistic; do you really think as soon as they moved to the Emirates the board all of a sudden decided "we will no longer be ambitious?". They, like Valencia, sell their best players because of debt; the nature of this debt however is what is different between the two teams. Arsenal run a long-term, sustainable business model and the huge costs that result from building a new stadium lead them to sometimes selling their best players; Valencia like so many other Spanish teams are in debt because of irresponsible, unsustainable business model and are now tentatively owned by the banks. With the shoe-string budget the Arsenal board has given Wenger to work with (again, not because the club has no money, but because the board has decided that the debt accrued with the new stadium is top priority), one could actually say that the consistent top four finishes has been overachieving, or at least not underachieving. I agree with you that Arsenal and Valencia is not an apt comparison, but it's good not to fall into superficial characiteurizations that miss what is actually at work.

Potato-Potaato
What "debt" are you talking about? Kroenke prefers to buy a ranch in Texas than buy the best players and pay them well in order to challenge for the titles. He has n passion for the club and doesnt want Arsenal to win titles and create history at the expense of his pockets being lighter. The bottom line is that Arsenal dont spend the money they have while Valencia spent the money they didnt have so now they dont have any left to spend.
Arsenal are the only Top 4 team to have a positive net transfer spend. This shows the the level of ambition of the management

You cant expect football clubs to be a profitable long term business especially If you want glory

 

[DonAndres]

the Potato-Potato thing doesn't really work over the internet

 

[Cule4life]

the Potato-Potato thing doesn't really work over the internet

I thought the extra "a" would work

 

[BXI Fútbol]

I find that it's not always to do with conditions of the TV deal but the footballing aspect of it as well. Atletico have just as horrendous conditions in it, but they were able to hold onto second place for most of the season before falling and win the CDR. As Atletico grow and improve their squad, they'll get closer and closer and end up making more money in the process to reduce that financial disadvantage. With this attitude and desire to grow, they'll improve the financial situation and the squad, making them closer to breaking the duopoly.

The actual figures of the new TV deal doesn't signal tiny unnoticeable change but something that's actually decent for a first step in improvement. Barcelona and Madrid will have their share of the rights reduced from 50% to 34% (which I find to be promising for a first step). The income gap between the largest and smallest earning clubs goes from 130% to 70%. The only thing is that the shares are spread more to the lower table teams rather than teams in 3rd or 4th place so it doesn't exactly help Valencia. In fact I believe Valencia and Atletico drop from 13% to 11% which I find stupid because it does little in bridging the gap to weaken the closest contenders.

But Valencia can't always rely on those TV revenues can they? Even if the deal were to be massively fixed, it wouldn't make Barca or Madrid much weaker and it wouldn't make Valencia much stronger. They need to focus on internally raising money to compete. The funds coming from the Joma sponsorship are better than Kappa, but still not much money. Plus they'd be getting much more money getting to the later stages of the CL or CDR rather than losing out early. Valencia need to up their publicity to get the necessary funds and frankly a lot of that works in correlation. Advancing more in tournaments will get them more revenues, and the increased media coverage will help them get better sponsors and investors, not to mention the fact that they could make the club a more global name whether it be player advertisements or setting up friendlies. A lot of the money comes from making a bigger name for themselves on the footballing stage, and to do that they need to put in a lot of effort. Looking at a problem as if it is impossible to solve will do nothing, as opposed to looking at it pragmatically and finding ways to make things work in their favor.

I can't refute these points because honestly I agree with them. My point was not to make the problem seem impossible, but rather that, even if Valencia do everything else right (raising funds internally, marketing the name globally, etc. etc.), no meaningful improvement will come without a fundamental restructuring and redistribution of the television rights in a more equal direction instead of the gross discrepancies in place now. The figures for the new TV rights deal look better than I thought they would, but of course the fact that Valencia and Atlético drop from 13% to 11% means it still works in the interest of keeping the hegemony of Barca and Madrid unchallenged.

Potato-Potaato
What "debt" are you talking about? Kroenke prefers to buy a ranch in Texas than buy the best players and pay them well in order to challenge for the titles. He has n passion for the club and doesnt want Arsenal to win titles and create history at the expense of his pockets being lighter. The bottom line is that Arsenal dont spend the money they have while Valencia spent the money they didnt have so now they dont have any left to spend.
Arsenal are the only Top 4 team to have a positive net transfer spend. This shows the the level of ambition of the management

You cant expect football clubs to be a profitable long term business especially If you want glory

Yes of course the board is basically the problem and I agree that they are ultimately more concerned with lining their pockets than how well the team does, but the debt I was talking about was paying off the debt accrued from the new stadium; perhaps you may see this as wishful thinking from an Arsenal fan, but I think that now, with the greater revenues coming in from sponsorships and the supposed Puma deal, and the fact that the stadium debt is now essentially fully paid while keeping the club at a sustainable level financially speaking, you will start to see Arsenal spending more and show the "ambition" that has been lacking the past years. It is naive I think to think that a club with as much history as Arsenal would one day effectively decide they would never challenge for titles again without some long term plan in mind. I believe what Wenger has done with the budget available to him the past eight years has been remarkable, and again with the stadium debt paid off that budget will grow considerably and Arsenal will start to look like its old self again.

I thought the extra "a" would work

Don't worry I got it.

 

[DonAndres]

Valverde is set to leave Valencia so he was ultimately not their long term manager. He's rumored to be managing Athletic but Urrutia has yet to confirm anything.

 

[Andrew M]

Djukic, of Valladolid, set to come in.

 

[Catorce]

Valencia sold Tino Costa for 7M and purchased Michel (Levante) for 400k.

EDIT: Seems the buyback clause of Michel was already activated weeks ago.

 

[nebeer]

Official: Soldado signed by Tottenham Hotspur for 30 million. We are a feeder league guys. Banega might leave as well!!

 

[DonAndres]

This is worse for the league, but I'm not gonna give up yet. Athletic are set to improve a lot this season and Atletico have completely lost the tag of "feeder club", they sold Falcao for an insane price and have bought great new players to help them out. Valencia, Malaga, and Sevilla are going to drop quite a bit though.

 

[JamDav1982]

Valencia looking very good against Inter should be 4/5-0 up.

Playing some great stuff and working so hard.

Banega is a class act when he fancies it.

 

[nebeer]

Yeah they won 4-0. Pretty impressive.

 

[Chainsaw]

Banega will be a brilliant player if he play consistently as good as he did last night. Could be as well chosen as the Xavi's successor at Barca.

 

[Kerrybai]

Coach Miroslav Djukic, inpsiring:

‘I was born in Chabas, a village in the former Yugoslavia, in 1966. I come from a humble, working-class family. When I was 20, I didn’t know what my future would be, nor that of my family.

For a long time, I manned a JCB like this one. I woke up early, and worked hard every day to help my family, just like you do.

I know these are hard times; I know some of you don’t have the opportunity to make a living in a worthy job.

Though life has smiled on me, and today I’m living a dream, I understand what you are all going through.

I know the sacrifice you make to come and support the team at the Mestalla. That’s why I promise you that this sacrifice will be worth it, and we won’t let you down.

I can’t promise titles, but I can promise that we’re going to fight for them; that we’re going to leave our souls in every training session, in every game, so that you can be proud of your team.