Who should be our new manager?

[BBZ8800]

I think you are slightly optimistic: Valverde is rock bottom (coaching wise). He has no redeeming qualities. Thats where we disagree.

1. Lucho was 10-15 points behind RM in his last 18 Months here.
EV comes without Neymar and wins 2 titles infront of the same RM.
= people will reply= RM got way weaker, that is the reason, and not EV.
= my reply=it could get worse, exactly like it was in Lucho's last 18 Months. Except that we are now 3 years older and it could get way worse.

2. people say: anyone can win a title on autopilot, Messi alone will do it.
in 4 years before EV:
2014: Tata didn't win
2015: Lucho won it
2016: Lucho has almost lost 10 points advantage in the last 6 Months
2017: Lucho has lost it.
In 4 years prior to EV, we lost 2 La Ligas.
How is that possible, if anyone can win it?
What is worse, we almost lost 3 titles (2016').
I know, an alibi will be again: our opponents were SOOOO STRONG back then.

Or the excuses: Tata was on a verge of winning it, he lost it due to an offside.
Well, EV was on a verge of winning a CL, if Dembele, Rakitic and Alba weren't idiots.
They you guys will reply: but WHO picked those players?=EV. So, that means that he is an idiot.
On the other hand, when Pep loses in a CL=it is not because of him, but because of an individual errors of his players.
Should I even dare to use some logic and ask: but hey, if EV is an idiot for putting idiots on a field, does that apply to Pep?

Regarding "it can be worse" alibi on our forum.
Just look at some recent patterns:
We had Rakitic for years.
The board wanted a better player.
They tried with:
1. Arda
2. Gomes
3. Denis
4. Paulinho
And finally in the 5th and 6th attempt, we got upgrades in Arthur and Frenkie.

Or, Suarez and: anyone would be better than him?
Messi as a No9 sucks today, he is not an improvement over Suarez.
People wanted to try Malcom as a 9.
People wanted Griezz.
Yet: we are shit with Suarez.
But we are 10 times more shit WITHOUT Suarez.

Or, in 2000 when Van Gaal was fired due to his too complicated and too mathematical football which lacked poetry and romance, even though he won 2 La ligas in 3 years.
It can be worse than this, people thought back then.
We had Serra Ferrer, Rexach, Van Gaal AGAIN, De La Cruz and Antic.
We were worse and worse with each new coach.
In the 6th attempt, 4 years and 0 titles later, we finally found a coach who was an improvement over Van Gaal in terms of trophies and eye pleasing play.

So, unless if you have watched Barca when we were 4th, 6th or 10th in La Liga, trust me, we are MILES from the bottom.
We could easily drop to a 3rd, 4th and 5th place.
And our play has a lot of room to become even more chaotic, and our defense has a lot of room to start conceding 3-4 on every match.

Again, I am not against changes.
But I am not for changes for the sake of changes.
Koeman for me makes sense.
Gallardo is just a wtf option for me in this moment.
A guy with zero European coaching experience, who was an average footballer. Who has zero experience with coaching spoiled divas.

Also, a new coach will need to kick Messi's, Suarez's, Busi's, Pique's, Alba's, Raki's, Vidal's, Roberto's asses.
This is subjective, but I have watched BOTH Koeman and Gallardo as players.
I personally always had some fear of Koeman.
A strong, angry, Dutch defender, who rarely laughs and who is kicking people and scoring goals from 30 meters.
On the other hand, Gallardo was a light technical midfielder like Iniesta, Denis, Puig.
His nickname as a player was "the doll". Since he looked like a doll...
Nice shiny skills, zero authority.
Again, this is subjective, but who is more likely to install new rules in the dressing room?
You need to be somewhat scared of your coach due to his his career, history, attitude, leadership etc.
Who seems to posses more of those skills?
A former Barca's captain, cold Dutch Koeman, and a scorer of a free kick in 1992 which won us the 1st CL title?

Or the doll?

Before anyone replies: but Pep was also nice.
Pep was not nice.
He was physically softer and a technical player, but mentally he was our captain, and he was always yelling and arguing with teammates, coaches, refs and always telling people what to do on a pitch during matches.

 

[mc_lovin]

Its not about Koeman or Gallardo (or any other coach for that matter). He wont join us before the Euro. I actually like Koeman the best right now .

Its about Valverde or Gallardo (or any other coach for that matter). We got consistently worse under Valverde (bar a decent first season). In principle we should have no right to compete for the league, but thank god Zidane fucked up against the likes of Valladolid and Betis at home. Otherwise things would be much darker.

 

[khaled_a_d]

.

Since when do you have that signature? I like it actually
Could add Roberto & Segura to the list too.

 

[snowy]

Bwahahahaha those pics !!!


Giant pic of K filling the frame and just below, in his nutsack area, mini G doing his thing.

That's some manipulative Cold War propaganda mean level shizzz

BBZ hitting below the belt on that one _ 3 points deduction!

 

[Raketa10]

The more I think the more Koeman looks like the best choice at the moment.

 

[DonAK]

Barca took a risk with Rijkaard and Pep. Too bad we'll be stuck with mediocrity going for the safe options all the time.

 

[BBZ8800]

Barca took a risk with Rijkaard and Pep. Too bad we'll be stuck with mediocrity going for the safe options all the time.

We also took risks with Tito, Tata, Lucho and EV. Or Rexach, Ferrer, Antic.
Only Antic was a proven coach.
All other guys were not too famous coaches, some had zero experience.

Also about Rijkaard, as you can read on Wikipedia

Regarded as one of the best defensive midfielders in footballing history and as one of the best players of his generation

Rijkaard was like Xavi, Henry, Gerard.
An ultimate legend of 80s and 90s. Won Euros 1988, two CLs with Milan and one with Ajax. Finished 2 times as the 3rd on Ballon D Or list.
So, a huge respect and authority was there.
As a coach, before Barca, he was a coach of Netherlands on Euros 2000.
Back then Euros had only 16 teams.
His results were:
France 3:2 (World cup winners from 1998)
Czech 1:0 (finalists of Euro 1996)
Denmark 3:0 (winners of Euro 1992)
In quarters, his team destroyed Yugoslavia with 6:1.
In semis, he played 0:0 with Italy and lost on penalties.
Netherlands played by far the best and spectacular football on that tournament. He resigned after that match.

So, Rijkaard back then was more like Koeman today (except that he was young), or Ten Haag.
A young, somewhat proven coach who's team played awesome (Barca-Dutch-total) football.

Here are goals from Euro 2000:
Netherlands:France 3:2 (goals by Barca's players Kluivert, Frank De Boer and Zenden):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj2E4kNGpWU

And quarters: Netherlands:Yugoslavia 6:1, with 4 goals from our sporting director Kluivert in the first half (and 2 from another Barca's player Overmars):

In semis, Netherlands totally dominated and missed 2 penalties (lol) in a regular time and eventually lost on penalty kicks to Italians:

Rijkaard had a lot of connections with Barca through Dutch football and their playing style.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Barca took a risk with Rijkaard and Pep. Too bad we'll be stuck with mediocrity going for the safe options all the time.

Barca had Crujif back then telling Laporta who to hire. He knew both of them personally as they worked under him.
They weren't really comparable as a risk to any of the suggested names here.

Edit: In addition, Rijkaard was great with NT, HUGE FLOP with club before he arrived here. I mean isn't that your concern with Koeman? NT coach being different than club football?

 

[Nello]

We also took risks with Tito, Tata, Lucho and EV. Or Rexach, Ferrer, Antic.
Only Antic was a proven coach.
All other guys were not too famous coaches, some had zero experience.

Tito had been through La Masia, and was Pep's assistant since his days at Barca B. Knew the players, and was very respected by the players and was liked a lot by Messi.
An obvious, and imo good choice.
Tata was a gamble, that's true. It was a gamble made out of necessity, Tito couldn't continue, and I don't recall any obvious successors as Jordi Roura simply wasn't good enough.

Lucho was a former Barca player who was well respected, he coached the B team for 3 years, and had done well in La Liga with Celta. I think the board was hoping for a Pep 2.0. Not the biggest gamble.

EV is a former Barca player, and has 14 years of La Liga experience. What a gamble.

Overall, besides Tata Martino, I don't think this board has made many risky decisions since they took charge in 2011.

Ten Hag or Gallardo would be gambles. None of them has a history at Barca, none of them has coached in La Liga before. Both of them have done more than well with their teams teams however, both regarding titles and the actual play.

I think it's worth taking the risk. Valverde is struggling to maintain a lead in the weakest La Liga in years, and failed to win the CL after being unbelievable lucky with the KO draws and at the Camp Nou against Liverpool, mostly saved by a motivated and in form Messi. If he couldn't lead us to CL glory last year, he never will. And we lost the Copa to Valencia. I don't think he's respected by the players, no matter what's being said publicly.

Gallardo or Ten Hag will command more respect, demand more of the players, won't decrease our La Liga hopes significantly and will, IMO, significantly increase our chances in the CL due to the simple fact that both have proven to be better managers in knockout games.

Worst case, we might not win La Liga and/or the Copa, which we might've won playing boring, slow football under Valverde with some individual magic from Leo. And we'll get a new coach in the summer, which we would have gotten anyway.

Best case, the new coach motivates the players, brings fresh tactics, improves some of the players, improves our play, and we might have a chance in the CL, Liga and Copa.
By summer, our new, better coach will know the squad well, and can continue to shape what will be our new team past Pique, Busi, Raki, Vidal, Suarez and someday even Messi.

Definitely worth a shot in my opinion, little to lose, lots to gain.

 

[BBZ8800]

Definitely worth a shot in my opinion, little to lose, lots to gain.

EV won 2 La Ligas in 2 years.
Barca won 2 La Ligas with M(S)N in 4 years prior to that.

Now, you guys would trade EV for a guy (Gallardo) who ended in Argentinian league:
2015: 9th
2016: 9th
2016/17: 2nd
2017/18: 8th
2018/19: 4th

Sorry guys, but this falls into a category: ANYTHING is better than XX and we would pick ANY option instead of him.
A guy ended only once in top3 in his 5 years in Argentina.

Yet, he is worth a shot over a coach who ended the 1st in his 2 Barca's seasons
With that logic, you and me are also worth a shot as a coach...

 

[Raketa10]

EV won 2 La Ligas in 2 years.
Barca won 2 La Ligas with M(S)N in 4 years prior to that.

Now, you guys would trade EV for a guy (Gallardo) who ended in Argentinian league:
2015: 9th
2016: 9th
2016/17: 2nd
2017/18: 8th
2018/19: 4th

Sorry guys, but this falls into a category: ANYTHING is better than XX and we would pick ANY option instead of him.
A guy ended only once in top3 in his 5 years in Argentina.

Yet, he is worth a shot over a coach who ended the 1st in his 2 Barca's seasons
With that logic, you and me are also worth a shot as a coach...

I agree with you Koeman is definitely a better option. What's even more important he has the balls to make some bald decisions. He is a Barca legend and he was a top footballer. Gallardo on the other side is a pure gamble, he could turn out to be a world class coach but also a new Sampaoli. Problem with Koeman is that we can't get him before summer.

 

[KingLeo10]

EV won 2 La Ligas in 2 years.
Barca won 2 La Ligas with M(S)N in 4 years prior to that.

Now, you guys would trade EV for a guy (Gallardo) who ended in Argentinian league:
2015: 9th
2016: 9th
2016/17: 2nd
2017/18: 8th
2018/19: 4th

Sorry guys, but this falls into a category: ANYTHING is better than XX and we would pick ANY option instead of him.
A guy ended only once in top3 in his 5 years in Argentina.

Yet, he is worth a shot over a coach who ended the 1st in his 2 Barca's seasons
With that logic, you and me are also worth a shot as a coach...

RM and Atletico were much stronger from 2014-2017. We can't just ignore that. Look at the point totals. I really have a problem with you attributing those leagues to EV. I will give him credit for the 2017-2018 one because of how he stabilized us after Neyclown left but last year was ALL Messi. I could have won that league as Barca manager last year.

 

[Nello]

EV won 2 La Ligas in 2 years.
Barca won 2 La Ligas with M(S)N in 4 years prior to that.

Now, you guys would trade EV for a guy (Gallardo) who ended in Argentinian league:
2015: 9th
2016: 9th
2016/17: 2nd
2017/18: 8th
2018/19: 4th

Sorry guys, but this falls into a category: ANYTHING is better than XX and we would pick ANY option instead of him.
A guy ended only once in top3 in his 5 years in Argentina.

Yet, he is worth a shot over a coach who ended the 1st in his 2 Barca's seasons
With that logic, you and me are also worth a shot as a coach...

You oversimplify way too much and leave out important facts to make your point seem true.

Yes, Gallardo did not lead River to great succes in the league. I completely agree.
You conveniently left out a lot of other achievements and trophies however.

Gallardo has also won:

Copa Sudamericana: 2014
Recopa Sudamericana: 2015, 2016, 2019
Copa Libertadores: 2015, 2018
Suruga Bank Championship: 2015
Copa Argentina: 2015–16, 2016–17
Supercopa Argentina: 2017

That's 11 titles, 2 of them being the South American equivalent to Champions League. And he might win a third, as River is in this years final.
He was also voted the south american coach of the year in 2018, and he is the most succesfull coach in River Plate's history, who is arguably the biggest and most succesfull club in Argentina

Other notable accomplishments, which aren't measured in trophies and league rankings is the fact that River is generally known for playing good, entertaining football.
He has improved several players, who since have been sold with big profits. This might also be part fo the explanation behind not getting continually good results in the league, as there has been a lot of sales of the best players in the squad. For example; only one player from the team that won the CL in 2015, is part of the squad who will soon play the final in 2019.

And unlike Valverde, who managed to win 2 historically weak(!) La Ligas with a world class team and the worlds best player, Gallardo didn't take over a top team.
River Plate was struggling to find it's footing after relegation in 2011, and hadn't won a continental trophy since 1996, not even the Copa Sudamricana, the equivalent of Europe League. Evne though they'd won the league in 2014, in wasn't a very strong team he was handed in 2015.

The way I see it, we are playing shit at the moment, and largely have been during EV's entire reign here. Or at least we haven't played very well overall by our own standards. And I think someone like Ten Hag or Gallardo might be able to change that and many other things for the better, which is why they're worth a shot for the rest of the season in my book.

As I said, worst case scenario, we won't win the Liga, and we won't improve. Then we can get a new coach in the summer. Not the biggest risk considering the current state of the team, in my honest opinion.

 

[IvanAtanasov]

I can't believe I'm saying this but until Xavi is ready i will go with Mourinho

 

[BBZ8800]

Gallardo has also won:

Copa Sudamericana: 2014
Recopa Sudamericana: 2015, 2016, 2019
Copa Libertadores: 2015, 2018
Suruga Bank Championship: 2015
Copa Argentina: 2015–16, 2016–17
Supercopa Argentina: 2017

Have you checked a meaning of those trophies?
1. Copa Libertadores=South American CL, where 23 out of last 27 winners are from Brasil or Argentina. So, a Champions league consisted of two countries...
2. Copa Sudamericana=Uefa cup
3. Recopa Sudamericana=South American supercup
4. Copa Argentina=Argentinian Copa Del Rey
5. Supercopa Argentina=Argentinian supercup
6. Suruga bank=Mickey Mouse trophy played between winner of Uefa Cup and Japanese leage cup winner (wtf?)

With that logic, EV has in 2 years:
1. La Liga 2018, 2019
2. Cdr 2018
3. Supercup 2018 and he has yet to play a supercup from this season
4. Copa Catalonia 2018 (like Suruga cup)

If EV will win La Liga, Cdr, Spanish supercup and Copa Catalonia, he will have a total of
9 trophies in only 3 seasons, which will make him as one of the most successful managers in Barca's history!

This is exactly how Gallardo's story sounds like.

Also, about South American football, whenever we watch Copa America or something, they play some crazy kung fu run and gun football with 110 miles per hour where every action is on a verge of incident, every tackle is on a verge of a red card and all players are running up and down like headless chickens.

Imagine coming to Barca after that where no one is running at you and the opponent has parked a bus.

** About La liga being weak, Real won a CL in 2017, 3 Months before EV's first season.
Atletico played in a final in 2016.
And RM has won it again in 2018, even though our league was the weakest ever, lol.