Xavi Hernández

[FlaFCB]

True! People forget that Xavi was nothing special at age 23-24. Both he and Iniesta became world class players when Pep arrived.

Wrong. Xavi was already wc before pep arrived. Just watch the 2008 euro and you'll change your mind. He won best player of that euro as well. Xavi at 23 was infinitely superior to Gomes, Denis, Rafinha, etc. And so was Iniesta. Iniesta, at 22, played very well in the 2006 ucl final, as a dm.

 

[BBZ8800]

We had Xavi at 25-26, he was a bench player in the CL final from Paris. We wasn't even used in the biggest match of the season. We played with Edmilson and Van Bommel in that game. Let that sink in.

Sergei, mate, you forgot some facts from that season, it seems:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SPORT/football/12/02/spain.xavi/

Xavi broke knee ligaments in December of 2005 and was sidelined for 6 Months after the operation.
He returned on a field in April/May of 2016.
A CL final was in Paris, 17th May 2016.

THIS is why Xavi didn't play in that year in knockout matches and why our first choice Cm duo was Deco-Van Bommel.

Xavi aged 24 for Spain (so not even for Barca, but for Spain in a different system), Spain:England from 2004:

It's a good old, classic Xavi.
Look at Xavi from this video. He has more creativity than our whole current team (without Messi) together.

Ok, he reached GOAT level during Pep, but even this Xavi was maybe the best midfielder in Barca's history.
I know that when I watched Barca's matches, my "most important players" were:
1. Ronnie&Etoo
2. Deco&Xavi
-- then all other guys, who were replaceable

Xavi wasn't rated highly back then because Barca was a crap, and Barca's players didn't play too much in NT team.
But then, after 2006, suddenly it was all Barca in all media, Tv, papers, random fans, NT team, everywhere.

People compare Gomes with prime Xavi in their head and somehow they arrive to the conclusion that he is a shit player. It's incredible. They don't even compare him with 23-24 years old Xavi, who had problems as well.

I don't.
I remember young Xavi and Iniesta.
Even though, young Iniesta wasn't my favorite until after age 22 (till then he was very hot and cold for my taste).
On the other hand, Xavi was for some reason, "a pure gold" in my eyes, since age 18-19.
Also, Messi, everyone "knew" that this guy is special, since the age of 18.

I am not saying that Denis or Gomes won't make it.
But at least I don't see that level of "greatness" which was clear in young Xavi.

On the other hand, at least in my eyes, there is "something special" in a (soon to be) 19 years old Alena.

I know that it is not fair to compare players with Xavi and Iniesta, but for now Denis and Gomes are miles from that level.
What is worse, I still somehow have more hope in Gomes (than Denis/Rafinha), even though he is too slow and weird.

 

[jamrock]

Xavi and Inieata where clearly WC talent at 23/24, and xavi was Injured like half of the season if not more during the paris final.

Also thiago is way better than gomez, and is a starter for a top 3/5 team whenever fit and contributes.

 

[serghei]

“At Euro 2008, I was told the club wanted to sell me. Real Madrid were winning and us, nothing”

“I go to the national team knowing that if a good offer comes in, the club will sell me. I spoke to my agent and there was an offer from Bayern. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge wanted me"

Xavi's own words. He was so amazing before 2008 that the club wanted to sell him that summer.

 

[jamrock]

If he wasnt amazing why would Bayern want to buy him,who wants to sell and buy doesn't show anything, I'm sure during some point in the club history they kinda wanted to sell every single player we have had.

Facts is xavi was boss since he was 20 and Van gaal brought him into the team, it was clear he was going to be WC.

When he got Injured during the champions league final run to Paris, and rijkaard started to play vom bommel and the likes, when he came back the path to being a starter wasnt as clear as it was before.

where it was him and deco in midfield, but you can understand why, while he was out, rijkaard found a midfield that worked during his absence and didn't want to change it.

Every player has a bad season or two. Even arguably the great midfielder ever. But he was clearly WC talent from day 1.

Gomes doesn't have that, probably never will, but probably he can grow into it.

 

[FlaFCB]

“At Euro 2008, I was told the club wanted to sell me. Real Madrid were winning and us, nothing”

“I go to the national team knowing that if a good offer comes in, the club will sell me. I spoke to my agent and there was an offer from Bayern. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge wanted me"

Xavi's own words. He was so amazing before 2008 that the club wanted to sell him that summer.

So what? That's your argument for Xavi not being wc at 23? Completely flawed and false. The notion that midfielders needed to be tall and strong was the belief then. And in which universe board members know it all, all of a sudden? They also wanted to sell Messi at one point.

At 23, Xavi was already a much better player than Gomes, Denis or Rafinha will ever be. It wasn't by chance pep told them he wasn't for sale at all.

 

[serghei]

So what? That's your argument for Xavi not being wc at 23? Completely flawed and false. The notion that midfielders needed to be tall and strong was the belief then. And in which universe board members know it all, all of a sudden? They also wanted to sell Messi at one point.

At 23, Xavi was already a much better player than Gomes, Denis or Rafinha will ever be. It wasn't by chance pep told them he wasn't for sale at all.

Xavi was not world class at 23. Come on.

He was 24 when he was in the Euro 2004 squad for Spain.

You know how many games he played in that tournament? None. Didn't play a single minute. I haven't heard of a single world class player who is not a starter at their national team, let alone one who is an unused sub.

Xavi was a good player, but not a world class one until older (25-26).

Gomes is not shit, he is just bad fit for us, you can develop him for years and then realize that you have excellent player... for United. I get why Lucho bought him, though. He thought - I have 4 AMs (Arda, Iniesta, Rafihna and Denis), so I will add someone different, tall, physical player like Rakitic, he will add more muscle in midfield. But he isn't adding anything special.

I'm sorry, but there our style is extremely related to the players we have. We are not a team that is willing to sacrifice everything to keep it's style, and by everything I mean results included. Bringing in many La Masia players will not absolve the team from the pressure of results, which is great at a club like Barcelona.

 

[FlaFCB]

Xavi was not world class at 23. Come on.

He was 24 when he was in the Euro 2004 squad for Spain.

You know how many games he played in that tournament? None. Didn't play a single minute. I haven't heard of a single world class player who is not a starter at their national team, let alone one who is an unused sub.

Xavi was a good player, but not a world class one until older (25-26).

In 2008 he was 28, and you're saying he wasn't wc because the club wanted to sell him. To me he already was at 23. Very different to what I see in Gomes, Denis or Rafinha. And I rate Gomes, he is a good player. But he'll never reach Xavi's level. Trying to undermine one of the best midfielders ever like you are, as if he was at the level those 3 are, is really ridiculous. And Messi was benched during the 2006 world cup. He was 19, but already wc too. Or you're going to say he wasn't either?

 

[serghei]

In 2008 he was 28, and you're saying he wasn't wc because the club wanted to sell him. To me he already was at 23. Very different to what I see in Gomes, Denis or Rafinha. And I rate Gomes, he is a good player. But he'll never reach Xavi's level. Trying to undermine one of the best midfielders ever like you are, as if he was at the level those 3 are, is really ridiculous. And Messi was benched during the 2006 world cup. He was 19, but already wc too. Or you're going to say he wasn't either?

No, I'm not saying he wasn't wc because the club wanted to sell him. That was just one comment.

I'm not discrediting Xavi by saying he wasn't world class at 23, since he didn't end his career at 23. It is possible for Xavi to be one of the greatest midfielders ever, and still not be world class at 23. Nothing defamatory towards Xavi in that comment. He had his best years later in his career and that is a reality.

Messi at 19 even scored at the World Cup in 2006 . Xavi didn't play one minute in Euro 2004, at the time you say he was world class. And he was much older than Messi. If he was world class as you say, he wouldn't have missed from the team. But he wasn't.

 

[FlaFCB]

No, I'm not saying he wasn't wc because the club wanted to sell him. That was just one comment.

I'm not discrediting Xavi by saying he wasn't world class at 23, since he didn't end his career at 23. It is possible for Xavi to be one of the greatest midfielders ever, and still not be world class at 23. Nothing defamatory towards Xavi in that comment. He had his best years later in his career and that is a reality.

Messi at 19 even scored at the World Cup. Xavi didn't play one minute. And he was much older than Messi. If he was world class as you say, he wouldn't have missed from the team. But he wasn't.

Yeah, because coaches are gods and don't make mistakes. If Xavi didn't play one minute in 2004, it's because he wasn't wc. Great logic there. He was already wc. Find some matches from back then and see for yourself.
If one of gomes, denis or rafa were as good as xavi was at the same age, they'd be starters ahead of rakitic easily.

 

[serghei]

Yeah, because coaches are gods and don't make mistakes. If Xavi didn't play one minute in 2004, it's because he wasn't wc. Great logic there. He was already wc. Find some matches from back then and see for yourself.
If one of gomes, denis or rafa was as good as xavi was at the same age, they'd be starters ahead of rakitic easily.

It is logical to assume that world class players are not unused subs at an Euro tournament. It is great logic, even if you meant to be ironic.

Coaches make mistakes, but the idea of a "world class" player is that he is so good that his quality is obvious to everyone.

 

[FlaFCB]

It is logical to assume that world class players are not unused subs at an Euro tournament. It is great logic, even if you meant to be ironic.

Coaches make mistakes, but the idea of a "world class" player is that he is so good that his quality is obvious to everyone.

It was pretty obvious to me and many others. He had some big names ahead of him, and spain's campaing was bad, anyway. Didn't get out of the group stage. And the coach wasn't even a good one.

 

[Raketa10]

I would bet you all that all of our players would be much better under Pep (or some other great manager) than they are right now. We can argue if Xavi was world clas at age 23-24 or not but no one can deny that Pep raised him on another level. As I said before a great manager makes good players look great and a bad manager makes good players look bad.

Good manager knows how to find a right position for every player and he knows how to emphasize player's strenghts and hide his weaknesses. Lucho right now is doing just the opposite of that.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

No, I'm not saying he wasn't wc because the club wanted to sell him. That was just one comment.

I'm not discrediting Xavi by saying he wasn't world class at 23, since he didn't end his career at 23. It is possible for Xavi to be one of the greatest midfielders ever, and still not be world class at 23. Nothing defamatory towards Xavi in that comment. He had his best years later in his career and that is a reality.

Messi at 19 even scored at the World Cup in 2006 . Xavi didn't play one minute in Euro 2004, at the time you say he was world class. And he was much older than Messi. If he was world class as you say, he wouldn't have missed from the team. But he wasn't.

Back then though, with the prominence of the 4-4-2 and its variations, a player like Xavi was really hard to fit into that sort of system. Xavi was ahead of his time in a lot of ways (yet ironically was a continuation of play from a past era) and as the game evolved into being more technical, his attributes began to be more lauded.

I mean come on, Mourinho's tactics ruled the day and a player like Xavi will always be undervalued in such a strategic environment. Can't say he wasn't world class because he wasn't prominent in the NT yet and I'd say he was world class at 23:

[youtube]_fPBrJSubcc[/youtube]

It just took the world a few years later to see how world class he truly was.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

I would bet you all that all of our players would be much better under Pep (or some other great manager) than they are right now. We can argue if Xavi was world clas at age 23-24 or not but no one can deny that Pep raised him on another level. As I said before a great manager makes good players look great and a bad manager makes good players look bad.

Good manager knows how to find a right position for every player and he knows how to emphasize player's strenghts and hide his weaknesses. Lucho right now is doing just the opposite of that.

Ehh, with Lucho he just does these things with certain players but not enough with others. Again, Lucho isn't a tactical genius but I'd argue that he is a better man manager than Pep was/is. Tactically speaking, really all Lucho is doing is Pep's 09 team with MSN instead of Henry-Eto'o-Messi and a Keita or Yaya (Raki/Gomes)in MF instead of a Xavi. Outside of playing on the counter more and pressing deeper to exploit more open space, the two are nearly identical.

Again, my posts clearly demonstrate I don't think Lucho is infallable nor isn't culpable for these results recently. But I'd say much more of this is from players underperforming and key injuries disrupting consistency. Its fallacious to say this is 100% or even 90% on Lucho and therefore that he is an incompetent manager.

It'd be great to see Pep with MSN but could be handle the locker room and get them along as well as Lucho has, particularly with someone as cavalier as Neymar?