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Birdy
Senior Member
We didn't have Mingueza, Araujo back then, so I partly understand him
But that system was good: it was a 3-1-4-1 in possession that would turn into a solid 4-3-3 in defense, tinkering with the role and position of fullbacks:
the more attacking one (alba) becoming LWB in attack, and the right winger becoming RWB
the more defending one (roberto) staying RCB in attack, but being RB in defense
Interesting idea that solved many problems
Was used again by Koeman-Schreuder a couple of times last season using Alba again from the left,
and having Dembele always out wide on the right as RWB in attack
Messigician
Senior Member
Birdy is either a troll or a Madrid fan
KingLeo10
Senior Member
BBZ8800
Senior Member
If we want to nitpick, EV spilt points in 3 out of 5 opening matches.
Bilbao:Barcelona 1:0
-- Messi didn't play (injury)
-- Suarez injured in the 39th minute
-- attack: Griezmann, Dembele, Rafinha
Barca:Betis 5:2
-- Messi, Suarez, Dembele injured (Coutinho loaned)
-- attack: Griezmann, Carles Perez, Rafinha
Osasuna:Barcelona 2:2
-- Messi, Suarez, Dembele injured
-- attack: Griezmann, Carles Perez, Rafinha
Barca:Valencia 5:2
-- Messi, Suarez, Dembele injured (Coutinho loaned)
-- attack: Griezmann, Fati, Carles Perez
Granada:Barcelona 2:0
-- Messi, Dembele inhured
-- attack: Suarez, Griezmann, Carles Perez
EV won 7 points in the first 5 rounds without Messi and mostly without Suarez and Dembele.
Then he won 35 points in the next 14 rounds.
35 points in 14 matches looks better than 42 points in 19 matches (Setien) with full squads.
The point: no, Setien hasn't improved anything over EV.
He didn't win more points nor did a team play any better than under EV.
Bobo32
Senior Member
If we want to nitpick: YES HE DID, it's literally in the quote and your excuse doesn't change anything!
Messigician
Senior Member
Read stupid
35 points in 14 matches looks better than 42 points in 19 matches (Setien) with full squads.
Setien had ideas and ideals that were not feasible to implement at that point of the season.
He come in and tried to teach Michael Jordan how to play Baseball. Problem was that Jordan had spent too many years playing Basketball- and that he had got it all wrong and he was actually at Neverland, coaching Michael Jackson.
He come in and tried to teach Michael Jordan how to play Baseball. Problem was that Jordan had spent too many years playing Basketball- and that he had got it all wrong and he was actually at Neverland, coaching Michael Jackson.
serghei
Senior Member
The "he got more points than EV" is one bad argument, he got more points because he faced teams like Valladolid & Alaves when their season is over and had nothing to play for, doesn't mean he did better
Especially when you consider we lost 7 points in 1st 5 matches of the season without Messi while he played all minutes available with Setien.
Oh, and both coaches got 19 Liga games, EV didn't get 20 as you mentioned before.
As I said, plenty of people had positive opinion of Setien, and all said he is improvement over EV which he wasn't by any mean or shape, other than empty argument of 2 meaningless points difference between the 2 with EV having his best player missing 5 games and playing not fully fit in another 2.
I didn't say that people were considering him shiny knight in white armor because I know this forum is too pessimistic to consider any coach like that, not even Klopp or Pep would be considered that on barcaforum
Yes, we started hearing that, in what context?
We started hearing it at the same time of Barcagate and during the same time Abidal decided to make himself a hero for firing EV without getting agreement with a coach before it and having to settle with 4th choice,you mean during that time?
why do we ignore that? It gives context to the situation.
Regarding Xavi: I admit he has the charisma and respect over Setien, but to BBZ point there is context in the comparison : He is another coach who people overrates due to the possession football (you yourself admit you are huge fan of that style) and this has been the case for many coaches.
You don't remember people here speaking highly of Sampaoli during his early Seville days? or some members thinking Paco Jimenez deserving the job more that Lucho? Or asking why we didn't go for Sarri?
Xavi has resemblance on some of those, since he himself admits he didn't pay attention to defense, which showed in his first season and this season, although he dealt with it really well last year and I was hoping he will build on that rather than getting back to his old ways
I get your argument, but at the end of the day a possession-based manager, a real one not conservative guys like Koeman or EV, hasn't had a shot at Barcelona since Pep Guardiola. After Pep left, the direction of the club changed under Rossel and Barto. Less focus on La Masia, more on buying stars and making the team more direct and top-heavy (basically get the ball to the star players as quickly as possible, and they will find ways to score), with lesser consideration for the things that made the previous team so successful and great to watch. The first few years were good because we got the 2 galactico signings right on the money with two absolute world-class forwards in Neymar and Suarez. But from there it went to shit pretty quickly.
I would argue Lucho was the closest to Guardiola style-wise, although still not classify him as Cruyff-adept, and he was the best of them all.
It's not really fair to consider Setien a proper tenure. The man was a filler and a scapegoat. His task was near impossible.
If we are to sign Xavi that would change. It would be considered a legitimate shot, with a board backing a manager that we know will try to play a certain way, the Cruyff way. If Xavi does fail, BBZ and you, and all those that think our style is obsolete and outdated will be proven right. All that remains is to come to terms with what failing for current Barcelona would mean. How do we define success, great success, and failure, for a club with low money and quite a few exposed positions? Especially after Madrid will sign one of the top 5 players in the world to bolster their offense next season.
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te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
The dislike button will lead to a lot of suicides. Careful there.
Messgician would resign from this forum ngl
gregorrin10
Senior Member
Kudos for even finding a link for that game.
Just 'watched' it on flashscore, not actually watched the game.
Horatio
You're welcome
What? Nahhh his mind is not playing tricks. People were excited about EV sacking and appointment of Setien because of his tenure at Betis and people thought he would have Barca return to attacking football. Once news broke out that he allegedly intensified training people got giddy that he had the balls to stand up to established players and started to believe he would truly bring change.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
First, let me say I get your point and I think we are getting more into common ground here.
I think it will be hypocritical for me to deny that Setien stand no chance, but, as I said once in his thread, for different reasons.
He was already over 60 and had no experience around big players, whatsoever, the closest he got was coaching 36 years old Joaquin. Xavi doesn't share that problem, I agree
Unlike what you think, I actually prefer possession football
You say Lucho was the closest but not really Cruyff-adept? This begs the question which current managers who aren't Pep whom you classify that way?
For me, I think the likes of Rijkaard (before Pep), Lucho and even non Barca coaches like Ten Haag or even Tuchel/Nagelsman could be classified that way.
The main difference between those coaches and Pep is that they aren't purist. They rarely had squads as strong as Pep's and they learned to adjust when needed.
What I don't like is lack of ability to adjust, which many of the so called possession coach does. Being arrogant and stubborn is my worries
Now does Xavi has it in him to adjust his game?
In his 1st season he didn't and he had rude awakening, he had the 2nd worst defense on the top 8 teams in the league (the whole league is 12 teams) and turned the champions into 3rd place.
In next season (last one) he finished with best defensive record, actually had the best defense since the league trimmed to just 12 teams from 14, they won the league comfortably.
This year he is back again to having the 3rd worst defense in top 9 teams so far, so he seems he is back to old habits, although results is still solid.
This is one of the main reasons I am not that enthusiastic for Xavi, at least not as a rookie.
I think he needs time and place to do mistakes in Europe and refine his coaching, I just don't think Barca is the right place for that.
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