Xavi Hernández

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Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
iniestaGOAT said:
Hahaha and they still couldnt beat us.

Its going to be very different at old taffiord my son.
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True, we wouldn't be having Gavi, PEdri, and they would be having Sabitzer, Lisandro, and Antony(?)
Xavi will try to play safe and correct his mistakes tonight by going for the starters, but with so many injuries/suspensions he will be forced to play Busi-FDj-Kessie md, and ETH will eat him alive

Tie lost tonight, and it's all down to Xavi's stubbornness
 
iniestaGOAT

iniestaGOAT

Senior Member
Birdy said:
True, we wouldn't be having Gavi, PEdri, and they would be having Sabitzer, Lisandro, and Antony(?)
Xavi will try to play safe and correct his mistakes tonight by going for the starters, but with so many injuries/suspensions he will be forced to play Busi-FDj-Kessie md, and ETH will eat him alive

Tie lost tonight, and it's all down to Xavi's stubbornness
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Nope, Xavi will be forced to play LW next game, we dont have enough midfielders. Hopefully dembele returns.

Dembele and Rapihnha will be the ones doing all the eating.

Their fullbacks were horrendous today, only saved by jordi albas incompetence.
 
iniestaGOAT

iniestaGOAT

Senior Member
Barcilliant said:
Put your money where your mouth is.

I already called you out earlier but you didn't respond. We are in for a second consecutive Europa league exit. Think about it.
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We aren't going out lil bro chill

I have no faith in you paying if we lose that's why I don't even bother with your silly bet proposals
 
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Birdy said:
True, we wouldn't be having Gavi, PEdri, and they would be having Sabitzer, Lisandro, and Antony(?)
Xavi will try to play safe and correct his mistakes tonight by going for the starters, but with so many injuries/suspensions he will be forced to play Busi-FDj-Kessie md, and ETH will eat him alive

Tie lost tonight, and it's all down to Xavi's stubbornness
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He cannot adjust, poor mentality. Always making excuses.I said earlier that our flaws would be exposed. Xavi is just lucky La Liga is so poor atm.
Imagine if Ancelotti, Tuchel,Conte or some other manager had two consecutive EL exits. Posters here would roast them and rightly so. However Xavi gets a pass here 9n the forum and from Laporta.
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
iniestaGOAT said:
Nope, Xavi will be forced to play LW next game, we dont have enough midfielders. Hopefully dembele returns.

Dembele and Rapihnha will be the ones doing all the eating.

Their fullbacks were horrendous today, only saved by jordi albas incompetence.
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Dembele injured. Raphinia can't eat anything. Calma
Our best chance is we are solid at the back with our starters, UTD doesn't penetrate us, and we miraculously (?) find a goal on a set piece to win this 1-0.
Can't think of any other scenario we score w/o Dembele, PEdri, and relying on Raphinia, FDJ, or even Kessie to create
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
We are getting battered in the return leg. You heard it here first. 3 zip to Utd. ETH knows he has it 8n the bag while our leprechaun Xavi fumbles around looking for excuses.
 
iniestaGOAT

iniestaGOAT

Senior Member
Barcilliant said:
We are getting battered in the return leg. You heard it here first. 3 zip to Utd. ETH knows he has it 8n the bag while our leprechaun Xavi fumbles around looking for excuses.
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Man shut up, you said Napoli would batter us last year din Europa too

Fact is apart from rashford uniteds attack looked garbage, and rashford will be dealt with next game
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
What I, and many others, have been trying to communicate to you goes a lot deeper than "no model is perfect". It's not just that the model isn't perfect, it's HOW FAR from perfect it is:

" locations of the shot, distance from goal, players in between the ball and the GK, positioning of the GK, speed of the ball the moment of shot, positioning of the body of the shooter, etc. And many others, the models are becoming increasingly sophisticated."

Notice how none of these parameters (as far as you've written here) capture: 1) Who is taking the shot (are they GOAT tier, clutch under pressure etc.) ; 2) Who is the GK (are they prime Neuer or are they MATS in CL KOs); 3) are one or both teams on a hot streak or losing streak, among countless other factors that common sense tells dictate high leverage situations/ games.

When I say the methodology needs to be questioned more, what I mean is that the relatively simple (used precisely because they are easy to quantify) parameters do not capture the essence of high leverage football games. The model is a very simplified/poor representation of reality and thus cannot be trusted wholly. Sure, we can gain some trends/insights for further investigation but at this point in time, I find it hard to label these insights as conclusive as you do.

Ultimately, the success of any model is based on its predictive power. Without running any sort of statistical models, I can tell you a team with Messi/Pep on it will dominate a league in terms of trophies and a team named RM will dominate CL in terms of results. Teams are remembered both for style of play and results. Ideally, you achieve both (prime Barca, prime Milan), but if it's between results (not just Ws but actual big trophies like CL, LL, EPL) and style of play, I'd weigh the former more.
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Even if its FAR from perfect, the its the best possible there is right now.
Better than looking at old stats (on/off target, possession, etc), or looking at whether Messi or Pep play/coach. The last one doesn't really explain the game at all.

Now, about the issues raised. 1 and 2 are perennial objections towards the xStats. The official answer from all the people working professionally on the field is that stats have overperformance/underperformance periods which even out if you look them over a long time interval. I personally would even go as far as to concede to the objection that there should be parameterization in the models to account for excellent GKing or excellent finishing (which some people have started), even though you should account for the fact that no one is excellent for ever: even Kane or Messi can be shit at finishing from time to time and Stegen or Courtois have stinker seasons before transforming into best GKs in the world

About 3: This is not an objective factor that can be quantified and included in any model. That and similar other facts that lie within the 'psychology' domain of the sport cannot be scientifically accounted for. Then, it's not that any layman watching knows what's going on there. It's all arbitrary assumption after arbitrary assumption. Plus, no top coach and coaching team in the world is basing any plan for his team on that. On the contrary, they are always trying to maximize through training and instructions the objective means towards reaching their end goal (a central one of which is how to develop tactics so as to minimize xG conceded and maximize xG attained).

Lastly, Barca is about way of playing. I have said this to you personally many times. Now you admit you would rather go for the result rather than the way of playing. I think that in essence contradicts Barca identity. Barca is never just about winning, but about winning in style.

PS: I don't know whether 'many others' have been trying to communicate anything actually. What I see is just ad-honimem after ad-honimem. I am not likeable in here because I do not accept the 'majority knows better' dictum.
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
Birdy said:
Even if its FAR from perfect, the its the best possible there is right now.
Better than looking at old stats (on/off target, possession, etc), or looking at whether Messi or Pep play/coach. The last one doesn't really explain the game at all.

Now, about the issues raised. 1 and 2 are perennial objections towards the xStats. The official answer from all the people working professionally on the field is that stats have overperformance/underperformance periods which even out if you look them over a long time interval. I personally would even go as far as to concede to the objection that there should be parameterization in the models to account for excellent GKing or excellent finishing (which some people have started), even though you should account for the fact that no one is excellent for ever: even Kane or Messi can be shit at finishing from time to time and Stegen or Courtois have stinker seasons before transforming into best GKs in the world

About 3: This is not an objective factor that can be quantified and included in any model. That and similar other facts that lie within the 'psychology' domain of the sport cannot be scientifically accounted for. Then, it's not that any layman watching knows what's going on there. It's all arbitrary assumption after arbitrary assumption. Plus, no top coach and coaching team in the world is basing any plan for his team on that. On the contrary, they are always trying to maximize through training and instructions the objective means towards reaching their end goal (a central one of which is how to develop tactics so as to minimize xG conceded and maximize xG attained).

Lastly, Barca is about way of playing. I have said this to you personally many times. Now you admit you would rather go for the result rather than the way of playing. I think that in essence contradicts Barca identity. Barca is never just about winning, but about winning in style.

PS: I don't know whether 'many others' have been trying to communicate anything actually. What I see is just ad-honimem after ad-honimem. I am not likeable in here because I do not accept the 'majority knows better' dictum.
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3) Is not well captured in football but in the healthcare setting for example, extensive approaches have been developed to incorporate subjective/psychological factors into an objective framework/model. A lot of drug reimbursement decisions are based on cost-effectiveness research, in which quality-adjusted life years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21037243/) , for example are calculated based on patient reported outcomes, preferences etc.

Obviously, healthcare is far more important to society than football, so I don't expect us to pour the same resources into working in subjective/psychological parameters into football models. But just saying it can be done and it hasn't been done in football.

I would wager/hypothesize that past results and parameters crafted around past results (W/L, goal differential, shots on target, shots on target proportion etc.) would be stronger predictors (either higher standardized beta coefficient or higher proportion of variation in outcome explained) than many of the parameters currently being used. To me, there is something to knowing it's Barcelona facing off against Atletico Madrid in the league that gives me more assurance we'll beat them than a measure of shot speed, distance between GK and player etc. I mean there's a reason why AM always choke to RM in the CL and to Barca in the league.

I see no reason why results of the immediate, and if captured reasonably well, and the longer term past can't be used to predict future results.
 
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