serghei
Senior Member
Barca have beaten no one of note in Europe for many years mate. When we will be as good as you say, we'll start beating important teams. Simple as that. Everything else is hiss and background noise...
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Barca have beaten no one of note in Europe for many years mate. When we will be as good as you say, we'll start beating important teams. Simple as that. Everything else is hiss and background noise...
JamDav1982
Senior Member
We are talking of last season... Barca failed miserably in last ten European games to beat anyone bar Plzn.
Playing best team available would be a start.
Xavi failed to do that.
serghei
Senior Member
Even before last season. Haven't beaten anyone top in Europe since like the 3-0 vs Liverpool, which was quickly followed by a 0-4. That's 2019. In 2020 Barca got beaten by Bayern 8-2. Then by PSG 4-1 at home, after Juve smashed us 3-0 on Camp Nou before too. Then by Benfica 3-0, Bayern 3-0 at home, then last season again.
The series of defeats this team has suffered in Europe vs meaningful teams goes back for 4 years already.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Ok..but we are talking about last season and under Xavi and end of previous campaign.
He doesnt get credit in bank from team failing to beat PSG or Bayern the two seasons previously.
We are talking about Inter, Man U and Frankfurt... not the better teams Barca were losing to previously anyway.
Dont get credit for more failure.
Who is last big team Arsenal beat in Europe? Or AC Milan or Newcastle?
None of them have recent European pedigree if that is the argument.
serghei
Senior Member
Yes, under Xavi the team hasn't been able to be very competitive vs the top teams in CL, continued on the same path as in previous years. Not a tragedy, it takes time to build a strong competitive CL side, it doesn't get done after 1 year and 3m investment on players this summer 
. You need more time and more money to get things done on this front.
But glad to be wrong and see Pedri boss some EPL midfields in Europe.
. You need more time and more money to get things done on this front.But glad to be wrong and see Pedri boss some EPL midfields in Europe.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Yes, under Xavi the team hasn't been able to be very competitive vs the top teams in CL. Not a tragedy, it takes time to build a strong competitive CL side, it doesn't get done after 1 year and 3m investment on players this summer
Nope not the 'top CL teams' not mentioning Bayern here... but Frankfurt, Inter and Man Utd.,
Barca have team to beat those sides and not failing to beat any of them in 6 games.
Barca spent more than Inter and Milan on their sides.. both in CL semis and beat Real to league.. one of other semi finalists.
Usual nonsense.
You focus too much on money as if players like Balde, Gundo, Christensen are all worse than players likes of Arsenal and Man Utd paid money for.
serghei
Senior Member
Frankfurt wasn't last season. Last season was Bayern, CL finalists Inter, and United with key players injured.
This season the team is a bit weaker due to no money to invest in the summer, and no Camp Nou. Hopefully a better draw will help us though, and we will have a better performance in the Champions League.
If not, we're not good enough, and we'll try better next year.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Yes and Frankfurt metioned as another failure v inferior team when tactically scudded.
All relevant and I specifically said 'last season and end of previous campaign'
Ah the 'key players' argument... when Barca had those players you claimed likes of Pedri and Dembele were over rated and only someone with 'agenda' would think those as better players than Utd had.
They get injured? Poor Xavi missing Pedri and Dembele.
Usual.
serghei
Senior Member
Everything was asked and answered. Even the Frankfurt game was played with a Camp Nou full of germans because our great socios sold their tickets and abandoned their team.
We also trashed Napoli at their home, trashed Madrid 4-0 away, beat Madrid last season in the league to a championship title. So... I'd say the team has been excellent and better than expected.
It's quite normal for a young and in development team to not be very consistent on the European front so fast. Especially when you have no money to improve your team even though everybody knows that this summer we badly needed a defensive midfielder, a left winger and a rightback. But... hard to get 250m and get those three positions fixed with top players who can contribute right away.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Nah its all excuses... 'house full of Germans'.. he got it tactically completely wrong.
As did time and again to go out to sides had better side than and all of whom had injuries also.
Madrid is example of how can beat top teams... yes well pointed out.
No more excuses.
serghei
Senior Member
Yes, Madrid is an example we can beat top teams. We can get tactics right and the players can deliver, so far domestically. We can also lose to any top team, as proven in CL last year. The team is at a stage in its development where both Xavi and the players need to show consistency at dominating the better sides.
The way you say it, the squad is great, and if we fail it means Xavi is shit, makes no sense. Whatever these players showed so far, they did it with Xavi. Most of these players won at Barca their first serious title with Xavi, last season. They're not some serial winners that Xavi is bringing down with his shit tactics
. They are first time La Liga winners last season, with him managing them. Most of the team is made of talented teenagers, talented but raw kids, 1-2 quality players in their prime, 2-3 good players, and some oldies that already saw their best days.The point you don't get is that we lose as a team, we win as a team, Xavi and the players are at the same stage. Both need to prove themselves against better, bigger teams in CL, where every error counts and the pressure is the highest. This stuff you try to promote, that Xavi is shit and the squad is amazing doesn't work at all.
I was born one day, but it wasn't yesterday.JamDav1982
Senior Member
Any team can lose to others.... even Pep has over thought it in Europe and lost to poorer teams at times.
When coaches make mistakes and dont get best from their squad they all get called on it...Xavi is no different.
Barca should be expecting to beat those they have better squads than and take it as far as can and go toe to toe with those that have similar and put up a fight those that have better squads.
Not been good enough in Europe.
Only beating Plzn in ten games is horrendous and many mistakes made that Xavi needs to have learned from.
No excuses this season.
Al this about 'Xavi and Players not having European experience' when Barca had players with more European experience than just about every side mentioned both in defeats last seaosn and those that 'buy the best players' next season.
When coaches make mistakes and dont get best from their squad they all get called on it...Xavi is no different.
Barca should be expecting to beat those they have better squads than and take it as far as can and go toe to toe with those that have similar and put up a fight those that have better squads.
Not been good enough in Europe.
Only beating Plzn in ten games is horrendous and many mistakes made that Xavi needs to have learned from.
No excuses this season.
Al this about 'Xavi and Players not having European experience' when Barca had players with more European experience than just about every side mentioned both in defeats last seaosn and those that 'buy the best players' next season.
serghei
Senior Member
Yes, Xavi AND the players. You never get it do you?
There is no logic in the world that would let you blame the manager and not the players for results for a club in Barca's situation.
Your logic would've worked if these Barca players would have made some top results in CL and La Liga before Xavi, and now Xavi is ruinning then, but when Xavi signed on they were like 9th in La Liga. And now under Xavi they are La Liga winners. It's obviously a natural, and great progress in the timeframe at hand.
However great you think these players are, I can assure you they are not and it's still some long way to go.
You never get it do you?There is no logic in the world that would let you blame the manager and not the players for results for a club in Barca's situation.
Your logic would've worked if these Barca players would have made some top results in CL and La Liga before Xavi, and now Xavi is ruinning then, but when Xavi signed on they were like 9th in La Liga. And now under Xavi they are La Liga winners. It's obviously a natural, and great progress in the timeframe at hand.
However great you think these players are, I can assure you they are not and it's still some long way to go.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Yes, Xavi AND the players.
Yes and the point is the coach is the one expected to get the best out of their players.
That is their job. They live and die by their players peformances and the position they put them in to succeed.
Simple.
Barca should be doing a lot better with squad have than did last season and end of previous one in Europe.
Likewise it is pointed out when teams have better players overall than Barca such as City currently.
ajnotkeith
Senior Member
They don't buy the best players. They buy B tier players who we already have.
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