1 - Marc-Andre ter Ansplant

[Flavia]

If that young keeper doesn't accept competition, and the possibility of being no2, then we have to.

@Flavia, I don't want Bravo to play in the CL instead of MatS. Although he would deserve to. It's the way it is and both need to accept that as long as the team benefits from this arrangement - Bravo: La Liga, Stegen: Cups, they need to make it work.

MAtS need more playing time, serghei. He won't get enough experience with cups only. It's not every season we'll get to quarters and/or semis in the cl and cdr.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Exactly, why do we have to take chances in the future when we already have what we need? We should stick to our long term plan which is to stick with Mats and make Bravo as 2nd GK. Bravo was brought in to become the 2nd GK, it's just that he turned out to be a perfect GK for us. I'm sure, Bravo is prepared to be a 2nd GK for us in the 1 or 2 more seasons.

Next season should be Mats on La Liga and Bravo on UCL and Copa and after a few seasons, Bravo should only play Copa to give Mats the UCL and La Liga. That's how you plan on long term.

Or we should stick to the winning formula and keep it as it is .as you said it yourself "why do we have to take chances in the future when we already have what we need"
And Bravo being bought to be 2nd GK was a bit of out of context .
Bravo was the coach choice .he brought him and forced the move and made him one of the most expensive GK in the history at the age of 31 .
MATS was Zubi choice ,not the coach .and the coach is the one who decides who plays and who doesn't not the ex-sporting director

 

[serghei]

Anyway, sensitive issue, but imho we need to keep it as it as until we are basically forced to make a definitive call between the two.

 

[aaron101]

Anyway, sensitive issue, but imho we need to keep it as it as until we are basically forced to make a definitive call between the two.

Well, I can agree with this. There's really nothing wrong with our current GK setup. What I just don't want to happen is to let Mats go. It's just simply amazing for us to have this problem. I never imagine we would have 2 world class GKs at the same time.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Anyway, sensitive issue, but imho we need to keep it as it as until we are basically forced to make a definitive call between the two.

Which will most likely be this summer.
Bravo isn't criminally underrated anymore, he'll leave to become n1 elsewhere rather than become n2 here.

 

[Topolino]

Is any of this real or do you lads have a great imagination? My bet is on the second option.

 

[God Serena]

I'd be curious to see Lucho trying to explain benching Claudio Bravo in the league, without being discriminatory about age (age discrimination is as bad as rasism and sexism btw)..

What kind of ridiculous, absurd comment is this? Age discrimination, in a sport where age is one of the most important factors of determining how useful a player will be and for how long they will be useful? I suppose it should become illegal to ask a player how old he is, since there's a chance you might not want to sign a winger if he's 32 years old instead of 23.

That's got to the most laughable attempt to wave away the age difference between Mats and Bravo that I've ever seen and I'm shocked that I'd actually see that from you and not one of the fans who's only here because Bravo is.

 

[serghei]

What kind of ridiculous, absurd comment is this? Age discrimination, in a sport where age is one of the most important factors of determining how useful a player will be and for how long they will be useful? I suppose it should become illegal to ask a player how old he is, since there's a chance you might not want to sign a winger if he's 32 years old instead of 23.

That's got to the most laughable attempt to wave away the age difference between Mats and Bravo that I've ever seen and I'm shocked that I'd actually see that from you and not one of the fans who's only here because Bravo is.

Age discrimination appears when you disconsider players based on their age, and not because of their performances. When you decide to bench a player, you're not doing it because he is 40 years old. You do it because he is not performing as expected. Age is the reason why he is not performing, and should never the reason why he is benched, irrespective of his performances.

Benching Bravo when is performing better than Stegen would be age discriminatory. Your basically benching him because he is older, not because he can't play at the required level. Surprised you don't see it like that.

 

[Observer]

I also remember Bravo being cocky when he said he wasn't worried about TS cutting vacation to come back and train early.

Why should he? He should be worried if his form drops, not because the other is training ahead.

Hell, Bravo could drop off the minute Ter Stegen leaves. We shouldn't deny that the two push each other to reach the limit of their abilities.

You understand this works both ways, right?

And the part about what's better for Barca's future is a projection. What we know so far is that Bravo in La Liga works. And Stegen in CL works as well.

Yea, can't quite grasp the conceptual talk about planning for the future. That happens when teams are on a transitional stage, which Barca is not. Or in the case of Ajax your vision is to be an eternal academy.

MAtS won't gain experience from the bench.

Keep saying bench, what GK considered bench plays CL and CdR for Barca.

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

When you say that both had a chance while the other was injured, the comparison you make is asymmetric. When Bravo got his chance, both keepers had a clean slate at Barça.

You could easily rephrase that to "when Bravo got his chance the pressure was on him to turn the opinion around as he was bought to become 2nd GK. And he took the opportunity & seize it."

Exactly, why do we have to take chances in the future when we already have what we need?

So the plan is working then, why change it?

The players will look out for themselves and you can't blame them for that. So no, they don't both need to make it work. That's what players with no ambition like Bartra do.

From a club perspective both of their personal ambitions/opinions have no relevance.

Bravo was the coach choice .he brought him and forced the move and made him one of the most expensive GK in the history at the age of 31 .
MATS was Zubi choice ,not the coach .and the coach is the one who decides who plays and who doesn't not the ex-sporting director

This.

Age discrimination, in a sport where age is one of the most important factors of determining how useful a player will be and for how long they will be useful?

Not for a GK, you should already know this.

 

[God Serena]

Age discrimination appears when you disconsider players based on their age, and not because of their performances. When you decide to bench a player, you're not doing it because he is 40 years old. You do it because he is not performing as expected. Age is the reason why he is not performing, and should never the reason why he is benched, irrespective of his performances.

Benching Bravo when is performing better than Stegen would be age discriminatory. Your basically benching him because he is older, not because he can't play at the required level. Surprised you don't see it like that.

Nolito was performing quite well but many people didn't want him because he was 29 years old and was almost certain to decline soon. Correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't remember this age discrimination rhetoric being thrown around. If we are going to argue age discrimination for Bravo, it would only make sense to argue it for every other player we have or have considered signing as well. Many people are of the opinion that Mathieu and Vermaelen are running out of time here as the club looks to sign a young , higher potential CB this summer, even though Mathieu is still performing at a decent level at CB and would be able to stay as 3rd choice possibly for two or more seasons. Why not cry age discrimination to those who hope we sign Marquinhos or Laporte to replace him? I truly believe this isn't how you actually feel, and that the age difference between Mats and Bravo is just so significant that you'd rather take a more emotional route to countering that argument.

Also, I find it rather interesting that you will argue that Mats is not riding the bench now and will even post numbers to support that argument, but consider the very idea of reversing their roles to be "benching" Bravo.

 

[God Serena]

Not for a GK, you should already know this.

Age is indeed a factor when choosing a goalkeeper. Pinto's age is the main reason we had such a terrible season after Valdes got injured. The numbers may shift to the right but they are still there.

 

[serghei]

Nolito was performing quite well but many people didn't want him because he was 29 years old and was almost certain to decline soon. Correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't remember this age discrimination rhetoric being thrown around. If we are going to argue age discrimination for Bravo, it would only make sense to argue it for every other player we have or have considered signing as well. Many people are of the opinion that Mathieu and Vermaelen are running out of time here as the club looks to sign a young , higher potential CB this summer, even though Mathieu is still performing at a decent level at CB and would be able to stay as 3rd choice possibly for two or more seasons. Why not cry age discrimination to those who hope we sign Marquinhos or Laporte to replace him? I truly believe this isn't how you actually feel, and that the age difference between Mats and Bravo is just so significant that you'd rather take a more emotional route to countering that argument.

Also, I find it rather interesting that you will argue that Mats is not riding the bench now and will even post numbers to support that argument, but consider the very idea of reversing their roles to be "benching" Bravo.

1. You never know how well Nolito would have played at Barcelona. I had no problem with his age. I wanted to transfer to happen, but it's not certain his performances would have been great.

2. Vermaelen and Mathieu are not good enough to start for Barcelona. As I said, a matter of performances, not age. Bravo is the best keeper in La Liga. Vermaelen and Mathieu are subs at Barcelona. Different status and value.

I have no problem with Mathieu being 3rd or 4th choice CB if we can't find someone better.

Also, I have no problem with benching Bravo if his performances drop because of his age. However, until that happens, he should be no1 imho.

 

[Observer]

Age is indeed a factor when choosing a goalkeeper. Pinto's age is the main reason we had such a terrible season after Valdes got injured. The numbers may shift to the right but they are still there.

Pinto's level was the main reason...lets not drop the bar.

Plenty of seasoned GKs play & are scouted/hired for big teams. It's probably the most sensible position when it comes to experience.

 

[KingMessi]

Pinto's level was the main reason...lets not drop the bar.

Plenty of seasoned GKs play & are scouted/hired for big teams. It's probably the most sensible position when it comes to experience.

Let's not deny that age didn't have something to do with Pinto's decline from Zamora winner to what we had in Tata's last season.

 

[Observer]

I wouldn't place Pinto in a conversation regarding solid WC/more than average GKs, whether young or old