10 - Ansu Fati

JohnN

Senior Member
Firstly all rumors are probably Bs.
If fati has any sense he will stay with us and try to get to top form. We are a club that in our worst days are challenging for LL and there is always the possibility we get back to our best, you never know.
His alternative is a decent middle table club with little prospect of breakthrough to the top dogs.
Just stay put and improve would be my advice.
 

Messigician

Senior Member
Firstly all rumors are probably Bs.
If fati has any sense he will stay with us and try to get to top form. We are a club that in our worst days are challenging for LL and there is always the possibility we get back to our best, you never know.
His alternative is a decent middle table club with little prospect of breakthrough to the top dogs.
Just stay put and improve would be my advice.

Rumours aren't BS

They come from top sources, it's clear Mendes has informed them about the situation
 

vuji_31

Senior Member
True, he can't go to top club, his lvl is Valencia or Sevilla.

I have never seen winger that is small, weak amd kind slow to be big thing.

Add to that 2 bih injuries at age 19...
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Again, I agree with a lot of what you said (about how we fail to adapt etc.), however, we HAVEN'T been playing "Barca football" that the club and the fans wanted, have we? The lack of fluidity and the static-ness of our play, isn't Barca football. If we care to institute whatever that is needed to play the proper "Barca football" without making any other changes, I think we would have been in a better place than we are today. I am not saying we play the football under Pep, we are a far cry from that, we are not even doing some of the basic stuff right these days.

Which is my point, it is not that we have shit players and our players are all garbage compared to other clubs, it is that we are not doing the right things with the players. If this keeps up, it doesn't matter which players we buy. We can buy all the athletic, physical, "modern", "professional" and NON-Spanish players all we want, they can still turn into shit with the current set up that has been going on for years.

Maybe:
= we don't play Pep's football (when we say Barca's football, we usually mean on Pep's Barca football, right?) = because we can't, and this shit from the last few years is the closest thing which we can do

About our football/Pep's Barca football, let's dumb it down to a few factors and analyze it.

Imo, the main factors of Pep's Barca success were:
1. Pep himself, the best coach in the world for that type of football
2. Xavi, aka Mr. TikiTaka himself, everything makes more sense when he is the brain of TikiTaka
3. Messi, superstar power
4. the state of football in general and the state of the opponents

During Pep's Barca:
1. Pep was here
2. Xavi was here as a player
3. Messi was here
4. the opponents weren't adjusted to our football yet, EPL was weak, Bayern was the weakest in the last 15 years, Seria A teams were crap due to Calciopoli scandal and bans to Juve, Psg was not as rich and influental (transfer wise) as today

Let's move to 2016, 2020 or 2020:
1. Pep is not here
2. Xavi is gone
3. Messi is now also gone
4. everything is harder than today: EPL is filthy rich, La Liga is shit, Psg emerged, Bayern is a mix of German football and Barca, Seria A is stronger, we are bankrupted, we can't attract top players. Plus, the opponents have somewhat adjusted to our style (compared to 2009)

As I have asked million times over the years: can we really play Pep's football today?
Or: can we play only some weaker copy of it, which probably won't ever be good enough for something like CL?

Further, people often reply to me: TikiTaka is not dead, a lot of teams are playing it.
But who?
1. City, who have Pep and an unlimited money?
We can't have Pep and we can't have their money. So, we can't do that.
2. maybe Bayern, but they play some sort of Barca possession football upgraded with German logic.
With Xavi, he often said: we lost, but we had dominated and had more possession.
While in German press regarding Bayern, you can often hear: we had 72% possession, that is too much, it was a bad match, we didn't risk or play too fast enough.
So, there is a difference: at Barca, even 90% of possession is good, as long as we dwell on the ball all the time and pass it from left to right.
While at Bayern: possession is better than no possession. But possession is good only up to a certain point = so, if you have too much possession, it means that you have played too slow.
So, Bayern wants control, technique and possession. But they also want counters, crosses and shots whenever possible to surprise the opponent.
Now, compare this to Pedri and our players who never shoot the ball and just pass it to someone else who is in a better position, waiting for the perfect opportunity with zero risks.

On top of all, Bayern is trying to play Barca's way but with tall, fast and strong players.
Where we sign Riki, Pedri and Torre, they sign 180 or 187 cm tall with 75 kgs (instead of 60 kg) players to do the same trick.
And then, they play the same as we do, except that they are faster, they risk more, they score more. And they dominate us in the air, in tackles, in running.

Basically, Bayern took Barca's way, but upgraded it with physique and logic (risk more, 90% of possession for the sake of it is not good).
While we are stuck in 2009' with possession, short players, no risking, dwelling with backpasses.

Who else played Barca's way successfully? Maybe Spanish NT team, but NT football is another story and you get a huge advantage for playing 6 players from the same team (Barca back then).

Now, pair all of the above with our stubborness and being emotional = how we can't play any other way than our way.

So, yes, I think that we have actually played the Barca way all this time, except under Valverde, but these coaches and players are so bad that this is the best you can get.
Paired with the fact that the opponents have learned how to neutralize the Barca way, or they just do it way better, like City, Psg, Bayern, Liverpool.

Again, I agree with a lot of what you said (about how we fail to adapt etc.), however, we HAVEN'T been playing "Barca football" that the club and the fans wanted, have we?

So, let's go back to this one more time.

Can we really play Barca's way at all in 2022 with Pedri, Gavi, Dembele and similar?

1. No Pep
2. No Xavi, no Iniesta, old Busi, no Alves
3. No Messi
4. football has changed, football has evolved, opponents have adapted to us and majority of them have surpassed us in our way of playing football
5. we don't have money and no star players want to come here anymore

So, one more time: how to play the type of football which you guys want without Pep, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alves?

Remember that Barca won a CL under Cruijff in 1992 and then we sucked until 2006.
But in 2006 we had a star power in Ronaldinho, and we already had 26 years old Xavi, and Iniesta was there. Also, young Messi helped in some key matches like vs Mou's Chelsea away, with earning a red card on him.
After 2006, it was all about Messi-Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Alves+Pep.

So, you really need to ask yourself:
1. was it only our style/system/tactics which worked and you can just throw anyone in it and it will work?
2. or that system worked ONLY because we had once in a lifetime players to execute it? And without them, that system can't work, or works in a shitty way, like under let's say Setien (he admired Cruijff, wasn't he?)

And then, without all of these factors, maybe what we see in the last few years is the best version of Barca's football which we can get (without Pep as a coach, of course).

And also, we don't want to move to anything else.
So what is left? = we are stuck in this eternal limbo trying to replicate our golden years, without any of the factors which have made us great :lol:
And hoping that only "the system" alone will bring us back to the glory.
Yet, Bayern, City, Psg and others have took our system and upgraded it in their own way and they are all way better than us today.

backchannel-how-to-escape-the-titanic.jpg
 
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JohnN

Senior Member
I maintain that system is not the biggest issue. Players are mediocre in any system.
Yes, we should move on because we don't have the tools to timi taka our way to a cl. But we don't even have that tools for any decent gameplay.
A mix of too old, too young and too average isn't gonna make a great result with any system.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Barcelona just needs better scouting. All the other top teams are finding potential talent and purchasing for 15-30M. Good return on investment. If Barca already focuses on them when they gain attention or start in the PL it's too late. Another issue is team's sloppy seconds. Barca literally took Chelsea's rejects and fresh meat. That's uh something. And now Xavi wants Kante :lol: If Jorginho was available I bet he take him too. Xavi is s stealth Chelsea stan at this point.

I agree. But when better scouting is the main thing that can move you forward, you are already in effect Spanish Dortmund. And I see Madrid and Bayern level of expectations, 2 top 4 teams. It is absurd. Laporta and fans need to understand the situation we are in and learn the art of patience.

I'm not saying finishing 12 points off Madrid is acceptable or anything, that would be failing what is currently a reasonable objective, challenging for La Liga and giving Madrid a run for it.

The club is here because they were badly run for nearly a decade post Pep. No easy way out of it. A decade of incompetence is taxing.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
BBZ is good at spotting things, but bad at putting them all together into a positive response.

There is just one positive response here. Accepting the demote of the club's possibilities and build back in small, realistic steps. We need to be drastic, but realistic.

There is an argument to be made wether the levers were good to pull or not, but it's a different topic.
 

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