10 - Lionel Messi - v1

[La LL]

Pele

1957 Season 41 goals in 38 games Aged 17
1958 Season 66 Goals in 46 games Aged 18

Not much different...

 

[jiopi]

yes yes, I know that the 1000+ total includes club friendlies and those from Santos' world tour along with those for Brazil.

HOWEVER,

the 66 goals in 46 games for Santos as an 18 year old boy, DOES NOT INCLUDE FRIENDLIES!!! nor does the 41 goals in 38 games as a 17 year old boy.

Yes they are also impressive, but if Messi makes 67 goals this season, it will be a better achievement by quite a distance.

 

[La LL]

Anyway, so freaking what HBA that Pele scored 66 as an 18 year old. He couldn't emulate that later in his career. Messi has his chance of getting that many or more goals now.

Your point is that Pele is better because he did it when he was 6 years younger than Messi? Bitch please...

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Yes they are also impressive, but if Messi makes 67 goals this season, it will be a better achievement by quite a distance.

not by quite a distance when you consider that Pele was 18 years old and Messi is 6 years older than that at 24 and playing in what is widely acknowledged as the greatest team of all time.

I value the fact that Pele was merely an 18 year old boy when he did that an even better achievement, even though I think Messi will score more than 66 goals this season.

That is just my opinion though. You are free to challenge it and believe otherwise.

 

[jiopi]

not by quite a distance when you consider that Pele was 18 years old and Messi is 6 years older than that at 24 and playing in what is widely acknowledged as the greatest team of all time.

I value the fact that Pele was merely an 18 year old boy when he did that an even better achievement, even though I think Messi will score more than 66 goals this season.

That is just my opinion though. You are free to challenge it and believe otherwise.

From his 66 goals, he scored 58 in 32 matches in a inferior league, state rather than national league.

This was the main point from the article.

Back in his Santos days, despite the talent in Brazil, and less exports to Europe diluting the talent base domestically compared to today, the standard Pele regularly faced was not the cream of the crop. For the majority of his career, there was no national domestic Championship in Brazil. Rather, there were twenty-seven separate State Championships. Pele played in the Campeonato Paulista, the state Championship of Sau Paulo. While this was one of the stronger leagues – containing Sau Paulo, Palmeiras & Corinthians – this still meant Pele rarely played against some of the fellow greats of his era, the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Zagallo & Nilton Santos.

Messi is facing the costliest team (RMA) in the world many times in a season.

 

[Superfly]

Guys, arguing with HBA is like arguing with a wall. Don't bother.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Anyway, so freaking what HBA that Pele scored 66 as an 18 year old. He couldn't emulate that later in his career. Messi has his chance of getting that many or more goals now.

Your point is that Pele is better because he did it when he was 6 years younger than Messi? Bitch please...

no, Pele couldn't emulate it later in his career, but 51, 55 and 54 goals is pretty damn close to emulating it.

what other 18 year old in world football has even come close to what Pele did? hell what 17 year old in world football has come even close to what Pele did at that age too?

Scoring 66 goals at 18 years old impresses me more than scoring 67 goals at 24 years old in what is widely acknowledged the greatest team of all time.

that is just me and my opinion, you don't have to agree with it.

Pele is a giant douche these days and that is no doubt why peopl do their best to belittle him and his achievements, especially on this forum.

 

[estranged]

Am I the only one who thinks that HBA always sticks up for Pele because Pele is black?

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Am I the only one who thinks that HBA always sticks up for Pele because Pele is black?

please don't be silly.

no that is not the reason why I'm sticking up for Pele. I'm sticking up for Pele because he is a Football GOD and what he has done in the game is unfathomable when you think of how young he was when achieveing some of his feats in the game.

 

[DivineVisitor]

you can hold that opinion, but back in Pele's day all they did was assault him to stop him. so I don't buy the whole, it was so much easier to score back in those days. yes of course defenders are more athletic these days, but is it really much easier to score when you are getting assaulted and referee classes it as fair play?

what other 18 year olds were scoring 66 goals in a single season in world football? has another 18 year old ever beaten that record?

another interesting fact, a 16/17 year old boy (not done growing physically) named Pele scored 41 goals in a single season (HIS FIRST SEASON IN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL) for Santos in all official club competitions

I guess that is not impressive either when compared to what Messi is doing with what is widely acknowledged as the best team of all time.

You can tell it was easier to score simply by comparing the number of goals generally scored in games back then, considerably more than generally seen it today's competitions. Even by watching the games it's fairly easy to see the difference in the game from then and now.

Also i realise certainly in the World Cup Pele got some rough treatment at times but how vicious were his countrymen back home by comparison? Not something i've looked up but would be curious to know.

No disrespect to the man mind, he was the best of his generation, but im just not convinced that if you went back in time and kidnapped players of the past and threw them into today's game that they would excel.
IMO the greatest Brazilian player to have graced the game was Brazilian Ronaldo in his prime.

 

[La LL]

Am I the only one who thinks that HBA always sticks up for Pele because Pele is black?

I'm thinking HBA has a way of bringing down even the most positive of topics.

He could probably ruin topics that couldn't get much worse.

"You call that cancer? The guy across the hall has a tumor the size of a fist! Back in 1955 this one guy had a tumor the size of a melon"

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

From his 66 goals, he scored 58 in 32 matches in a inferior league, state rather than national league.

This was the main point from the article.



Messi is facing the costliest team (RMA) in the world many times in a season.

you are entitled to your opinion, and can belittle an 18 year old boy scoring 66 goals in a single season all you want.

you can belittle Pele being winning the Brazilian league with Santos all you want too. you can do that too with him winning what is now known as the Club World Cup too against European champions.

and rarely? how often is rarely? twice a season???

 

[jiopi]

Nevermind, pointless.

 

[estranged]

@HBA: what jiopi, and half of the forum, and half the football pundits have been saying is that he scored his "1000 goals" in an inferior league, basically he scored those against malnourished brazilian defenders....true he did a lot for the game, but football is a much more dynamic and intense sport right now, I was watching Holland vs. Ireland from Italia 1990 on ESPN classic the other day, it's amazing how much space players were given, how much less running players did in 90 minutes, how disorganized defenses were compared to now and this was just 20 years ago, I dare not think what it was like before Colour TVs were around. Do you seriously think Pele would have been able to score 300 goals if he was around in the 1990s, let alone 1000 goals. Anyways there is no point in arguing over Messi vs. Pele, I guess Pele really feels inferior to Messi hence why he always tries to mock him.

I'm thinking HBA has a way of bringing down even the most positive of topics.

He could probably ruin topics that couldn't get much worse.

"You call that cancer? The guy across the hall has a tumor the size of a fist! Back in 1955 this one guy had a tumor the size of a melon"

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

You can tell it was easier to score simply by comparing the number of goals generally scored in games back then, considerably more than generally seen it today's competitions. Even by watching the games it's fairly easy to see the difference in the game from then and now.

Also i realise certainly in the World Cup Pele got some rough treatment at times but how vicious were his countrymen back home by comparison? Not something i've looked up but would be curious to know.

No disrespect to the man mind, he was the best of his generation, but im just not convinced that if you went back in time and kidnapped players of the past and threw them into today's game that they would excel.
IMO the greatest Brazilian player to have graced the game was Brazilian Ronaldo in his prime.