10 - Lionel Messi - v1

[Barcafan 2304]

Fair enough Hatem. For me, Maradonna was the best ever but you make excellent points. There is no doubt Pele was one of the best players ever.

 

[Pedram123]

For me Messi is the best player i have every seen.
And I have watched Maradona and Pele play (Not live.)
The way you see he has no space but still creates space for himself is fantastic.
When Messi scores, you think goal scoring is easy.
He is something else (As the commentator in a match said.)

 

[tariqo]

arty1:

facing dirty players so early in his career

 

[sumo]

to Phatronaldo:

It is typical anti-pele argument. Defending back in Brazil was Bad back in those days etc. etc., they didn't foucs on defending as much so lets belittle Pele's achivements blah blah blah.

Did Pele not score against the great AC Milan side of Trappatoni? I guess that AC Milan side who were European Champions at the time didn't foucs on defense, therefore Pele scoring against them means nothing. Same goes for Pele against Benfica who were also European Champions at the time when his Santos beat them in the World Club Cup Final(Intercontinental Cup), Peles 2nd triumph in that competition. I guess all his achievements in the game mean nothing unless he scores against teams from Europe eh? All his goals in Brazilian league mean nothing therefore all those football greats(players and managers) who swear he is the best ever are crazy for even contemplating mentioning him in that bracket eh?

I guess that defenders never tried stopping Pele with what was tantamount to assault? People say there was less focus on defending in Brazilian leauge back then, just look at how defenders tried to stop Pele on youtube and all the assaults he had to put up with. People think Messi gets kicked bad thesedays, just youtube Pele and fouls.

I guess the fact that almost all of the Brazil squad that won 2 of 3 world cups with Pele played their league football in Brazil means that Brazilian league football back then was so bad that the goals Pele scored in that league may as well be tantamount to nothing!

I grow tired of that rhetoric. Back in those days the Brazilian league was considered one of the best in World football by many old timers.

As for the 1285 goals, yes I know that includes all the goals he scored on World tour with Santos. I don't remember claiming differently? Santos back in those days are what Barcelona/RealMadrid(Zizou & Co.) is today to many fans worldwide.

All this talk of Football didn't start till the 80's is pathetic. If Pele at 16 was playing today with all todays medicine and training methods, he would still go on to be considered best ever in my opinion.

Pele is the best ever, that is my opinion and if you don't agree with it. that is perfectly fine. But to belittle all goals he ever scored in Brazil, because you say the league has less foucs on defense is quiite pathetic in my opinion. I don't recall any other 16 year olds around that time being Top Goal Scorer in Brazil, espcially if the league was so terrible defensively as you claim. Must be why Brazil won the world cup 3 times in that time period, cause they can't defend properly because of the league they come from.

Messi is a football GOD for sure, and he is in the same bracket as Pele, but for me, no one is bettre than Pele. It's my opinion and the opinion of many other football fans and you are not going to change it with your biased hatchet job on his achivements.

Yes Pele is an an insecure A**HOLE for his comments(reminds me of Mourinho) but still the best ever for me.

The way I see it football's improving all the time, the players are improving, the tactics, fitness. Pele was way better than any other footballer of his generation. Messi is way better than any today. But if you look at pure footballing skill, David Villa is probably as good as Pele was in his prime. The game has just transformed.

So what you're comparing is how much Pele was ahead of his time vs how much Messi is ahead of his time, and that's impossible to say....

In fifty years the average star will probably be as good as Messi, and every team will have their own messi. I look forward to it.

 

[beautifulgame]

The way I see it football's improving all the time, the players are improving, the tactics, fitness. Pele was way better than any other footballer of his generation. Messi is way better than any today. But if you look at pure footballing skill, David Villa is probably as good as Pele was in his prime. The game has just transformed.

So what you're comparing is how much Pele was ahead of his time vs how much Messi is ahead of his time, and that's impossible to say....

In fifty years the average star will probably be as good as Messi, and every team will have their own messi. I look forward to it.

So, by your logic, the average scientist is now at least intellectually equivalent to Einstein?

Because our perception of time is linear progression, henceforth everything improves as time "progresses?"

I'mjustsaiyan.jpg

 

[sumo]

So, by your logic, the average scientist is now at least intellectually equivalent to Einstein?

Because our perception of time is linear progression, henceforth everything improves as time "progresses?"

I'mjustsaiyan.jpg

Physics isn't soccer, you just supported my point though. The best physicists of today definitely know as much as Einstein did. So if you are talking knowledge, or football skill ,than yes, there is improvement. But Einstein was great because he was able to leap ahead in his thinking from his peers. Like Messi or Pele.

 

[mitkoa7x]

In fifty years the average star will probably be as good as Messi, and every team will have their own messi. I look forward to it.

I hope i dont live to see that day

 

[Aryagorn]

In fifty years the average star will probably be as good as Messi, and every team will have their own messi. I look forward to it.

One day the average star, though very unlikely, might be as good as Messi... But there's never going to be a day when every team would have their own Messi! It's impossible

 

[gingerless]

Physics isn't soccer, you just supported my point though. The best physicists of today definitely know as much as Einstein did. So if you are talking knowledge, or football skill ,than yes, there is improvement. But Einstein was great because he was able to leap ahead in his thinking from his peers. Like Messi or Pele.

:clap:

 

[Pedro17]

Pele is a great of all the time, the big differance between Pele and Messi is Messi doesn't have to speak negatively about Pele to try and prove if he is as good or better. Yet Pele has always and will always hate on guys that are on his level. Pele is amazing but his goal "record" is somewhat a joke. Maradona and Messi are both better than Pele in my opinion. Just don't understand why someone as good as Pele needs to hate on Messi...

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

One day the average star, though very unlikely, might be as good as Messi... But there's never going to be a day when every team would have their own Messi! It's impossible

I don't think so.

You are either born with it or you are not. That is what defines the greats of football.

Instead of learning it in training and through coaching, it is innately built into them. From the first time they start playing they do everything instinctively right; almost perfect control, touch, close control, almost perfect technique, ability.

You are born with it.

I don't care if in 50 years time you take a 1000 kids and put them in football academy school aged 18 months old and train them for the rest of their lives. Not a single 1 of them will turn out to be a Ronaldo(BRA), Pele or a Messi. Not 1 of them.

 

[Aryagorn]

I don't think so.

You are either born with it or you are not. That is what defines the greats of football.

Instead of learning it in training and through coaching, it is innately built into them. From the first time they start playing they do everything instinctively right; almost perfect control, touch, close control, almost perfect technique, ability.

You are born with it.

I don't care if in 50 years time you take a 1000 kids and put them in football academy school aged 18 months old and train them for the rest of their lives. Not a single 1 of them will turn out to be a Ronaldo(BRA), Pele or a Messi. Not 1 of them.

That's what I meant by 'there's never going to be a day when every team would have their own Messi!' Of course the brilliance & that magic is some thing which can't be taught

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Pele is a great of all the time, the big differance between Pele and Messi is Messi doesn't have to speak negatively about Pele to try and prove if he is as good or better. Yet Pele has always and will always hate on guys that are on his level. Pele is amazing but his goal "record" is somewhat a joke. Maradona and Messi are both better than Pele in my opinion. Just don't understand why someone as good as Pele needs to hate on Messi...

Pele's goals record is not a joke, even when you take away all the goals he scored on World Tour with Santos. Pele is hating becuase he likes his exclusive club as Greatest Ever. As soon as someone is mentioned in the same bracket as him, his EGO can't take it. The same will happen with Neymar if he becomes as good as expected, even though he is on good terms with Pele now. Everyone was on good terms with Pele until they became good enought to be considered on his level and even challenge it; Ronaldo(BRA), Romario etc. the guy has an EGO as big as Mourinho. That is the one trait about Pele that makes it easy for people to dislike him and as a result do their best to try belittle all his achivements in the game.

 

[Aryagorn]

Pele's goals record is not a joke, even when you take away all the goals he scored on World Tour with Santos. Pele is hating becuase he likes his exclusive club as Greatest Ever. As soon as someone is mentioned in the same bracket as him, his EGO can't take it. The same will happen with Neymar if he becomes as good as expected, even though he is on good terms with Pele now. Everyone was on good terms with Pele until they became good enought to be considered on his level and even challenge it; Ronaldo(BRA), Romario etc. the guy has an EGO as big as Mourinho. That is the one trait about Pele that makes it easy for people to dislike him and as a result do their best to try belittle all his achivements in the game.

And he always has to pick a Brazilian to one of the greats.

 

[Yugi]

for me Cruyff was best thing to happen in football history, he was one of the best players history and also one of the best coaches in history... he brought totalfootball here and was ruling the world with totalfootball in Ajax as a player....Cruyff was at the very begining of Messi as a player we know now
Maradona was footballing genius (I consider him better than Pele) but as a person he is total idiot
We could see Pele being reborn in El fenomeno (he was at his peak around 18 y.o, fast etc) .... from Pele and fat Ronaldo matches and compilations I´ve seen their were most similiar players, Ronaldo had problems with his body thats why he became very fat. People remember Ronaldo because he was fucking unstoppable in terms of scoring goals but imho he missed the MAGIQUE ronaldinho, messi, cruyff and maradona had, they were team leaders they worked for the team and they had most similar role in the team, they were creators they could create impossible chances (not sure if Pele didnt work for the team but so many goals says to me that the team was working for him just like CR7 right now)
Messi added to creating opportunities his goal scoring thats why (when he will retire) will be considered as the best player to be ever born in this world... right now it´s maradona, cruyff, pele