10 - Lionel Messi - v1

[Catalonian Devil]

Well, he's stacking up the assists as well as the goals so his passing is good enough

Its not even just the assists, the amount of perfectly weighed diagonal passes that play the overlapping LB or Villa/Pedro on the flanks are ridiculous.

We're just so used to how he does them time and time again now we take them for granted.

 

[Barcafan 2304]

Its not even just the assists, the amount of perfectly weighed diagonal passes that play the overlapping LB or Villa/Pedro on the flanks are ridiculous.

We're just so used to how he does them time and time again now we take them for granted.

Agreed mate, he just keeps on delivering the sensational

 

[FiReFTW]

I would only put Xavi above Messi in Barcelona, and IMO Messi is up there with the very best in the world in terms of short/mid-length passing.

lmao, pure comedy right here.

You do know that your completely bias since your only mentioning short and mid length passing right?

Passing ability = passing range and passing accuracy.

Messi lags in the 1st area against at least 3 players at Barca: Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc.
In the 2nd he is comparable to Iniesta only on that list.

Also lol at mentioning how much assists Messi had, first of all you should check the vid of all his assists last season and tell me how many of those are defense spliting passes and under pressure?
Messi is agile, fast and the best dribbler in the world atm, its only natural and logical that means he opens up huge spaces for himself which lead to easy passes.
Now compare that to Xavi or Cesc and to some extent Iniesta who are slower, less agile and not as good dribblers as he is and put all that into account and then try comparing who the better passer is.

So I guess Cristiano Ronaldo is a better passer than Xavi and Iniesta because he had more assists last season huh?

Some of you people are really ridicilous with some statements.

Im not saying Messi is not a great passer , he obviously is but comparing him to Xavi/Cesc or even Iniesta? come on dude..

 

[Catalonian Devil]

lmao, pure comedy right here.

You do know that your completely bias since your only mentioning short and mid length passing right?

Passing ability = passing range and passing accuracy.

Messi lags in the 1st area against at least 3 players at Barca: Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc.
In the 2nd he is comparable to Iniesta only on that list.

Also lol at mentioning how much assists Messi had, first of all you should check the vid of all his assists last season and tell me how many of those are defense spliting passes and under pressure?
Messi is agile, fast and the best dribbler in the world atm, its only natural and logical that means he opens up huge spaces for himself which lead to easy passes.
Now compare that to Xavi or Cesc and to some extent Iniesta who are slower, less agile and not as good dribblers as he is and put all that into account and then try comparing who the better passer is.

So I guess Cristiano Ronaldo is a better passer than Xavi and Iniesta because he had more assists last season huh?

Some of you people are really ridicilous with some statements.

Im not saying Messi is not a great passer , he obviously is but comparing him to Xavi/Cesc or even Iniesta? come on dude..

First of all ing every couple of sentences doesn't make your argument stronger.

Funny how you chose to pick only parts of my post and completely putting them out of context,

Please direct me to where I said his 18 assists is the reason he is a better passer than anyone?
It was a reply to the statement that he is only a scorer and not a playmaker. Learn to put things in context.

Of course not all his assists are defense splitting, that's the point I was trying to make. Do you know how many defense splitting passes were NOT assists? How many were wasted by Villa or were a set-up for an overlapping Abidal or Adriano to assist a goal? What about the ones Tevez and Lavezzi wasted? Please tell me what was Messi's role in the Argentina team and why he would be used for it if he can't 'pass under pressure'.
His assist tally doesn't do justice to how many critical passes he plays game in game out

Using his agility against him is laughable, so because he's fast and create space for himself that somehow makes his passing not as impressive as someone who is slower? You automatically assume his passing would be less efficient if he didn't have his agility, based on what exactly? You do realize today's piece of sex to Fabregas was from a standing position? I didn't see the space his agility created there. It's not the only time he's done it do you not remember his chip to Alves which he headed home? Yeah his agility made all the difference there ...

Please come back with a better argument to try to downplay his passing.

 

[FiReFTW]

Someone who conveniently ignores important parts of my posts telling me I need a better argument, funny.

I didn't focus on your whole post only on the fact that you think only Xavi is a better passer.
Sorry but thats just way wrong and insulting to Cesc and Iniesta which have better passing range and at least as good accuracy.

Alltho Messi isn't that far away from Iniesta in terms of passing ability but he certainly is from Cesc.

 

[OriginalThinking]

Messi is as good a passer as Maradona, no question on that. I can think of 3 defence splitting assists in his most recent games - Tonights supercup assist for Cesc, the assist for Iniesta in the Supercopa and a frankly amazing pass to Aguero (think that was in the Copa America - EDIT Actually it was a friendly directly before vs Albania). And that's just a) recently and b) the ones that were scored. I think Messi is very likely as good a passer as Iniesta (slightly behind Xavi) but he plays in a different, higher pressured area of the pitch and attempts more direct forward passes looking to break down the opposition defence to get another of the front 3 to get into the space behind. This sort of passing is less likely to have a higher success rate than a Xavi or Iniesta who play deeper on the pitch and whose style is more incremental and less direct - (This is not a criticism of either, as the role they play demands it). Because of where he is positioned and how Barcelona play Messi is less required to play long side to side balls or long direct forward balls in the vein of a Beckham or Gerrard, but his accuracy of both long, short and mid is nothing short of brilliant where required. The thing that makes Messi so outstanding is that he is in the best 3 in the world for finishing, dribbling and playmaking. Having just one of those 3 is enough to make you world class, having 2 of those 3 makes you a once in a generation player, having all 3 elevates you amongst the greats - which is where Messi belongs.

 

[Catalonian Devil]

Someone who conveniently ignores important parts of my posts telling me I need a better argument, funny.

I didn't focus on your whole post only on the fact that you think only Xavi is a better passer.
Sorry but thats just way wrong and insulting to Cesc and Iniesta which have better passing range and at least as good accuracy.

Alltho Messi isn't that far away from Iniesta in terms of passing ability but he certainly is from Cesc.

While I agree that Messi doesn't have the range of Iniesta and Cesc, but his passing accuracy is just as good, however that's not what makes him standout.

The reason I rate him above them as a passer is his ability to play the killer ball. Passing is not just range or accuracy, its also choosing picking the right pass. Messi is a beast at playing the decisive ball. He may have the option of playing the easy pass, but he'll go for the more direct, riskier pass, the killer ball. That's one of the reasons why some people often underrate his ability because naturally when you take more risks you're bound to fail more often. His ability to consistently successfully execute the tougher passes is what makes him standout IMO

As far as him not having the range, I won't be so quick to attribute that to him not having the ability for it. Don't forget where he plays on the field, he's hardly in the position to play long-range passes frequently. Does that mean he wouldn't be able to execute them at a high level if he actually has to use them more frequently? Certainly not. Its not like we seem him playing bad long-range passes, its more of us not seeing him play them at all.

 

[FiReFTW]

the assist for Iniesta in the Supercopa

Defense spliting pass? the CB's were 50 metres apart, but anyway Messi's passing is almost on Iniesta level, perhaps similar but hes behind Xavi and Cesc.

Maradona however is widely regarded as the top5 passer in history, Messi simply isn't there yet.

 

[FiReFTW]

The reason I rate him above them as a passer is his ability to play the killer ball. Passing is not just range or accuracy, its also choosing picking the right pass. Messi is a beast at playing the decisive ball. He may have the option of playing the easy pass, but he'll go for the more direct, riskier pass, the killer ball. That's one of the reasons why some people often underrate his ability because naturally when you take more risks you're bound to fail more often. His ability to consistently successfully execute the tougher passes is what makes him standout IMO

Well for me thats a different category, I only look at the passing range and accuracy when comparing "passing", those things you mention are mental attributes for me, but well depends how you look at it.

 

[OriginalThinking]

Defense spliting pass? the CB's were 50 metres apart, but anyway Messi's passing is almost on Iniesta level, perhaps similar but hes behind Xavi and Cesc.

Maradona however is widely regarded as the top5 passer in history, Messi simply isn't there yet.

The combination of the pass having perfect weight and angle, plus timed to perfection to align with Iniesta's run makes it defence splitting. Plus his dummy on Carvalho who had come out to close him down helped to create that space. At this point you are just coming across as being a bit silly and have clearly lost the rational argument. It was the very definition of a pass that split the defence wide open. I suggest you watch it again.

 

[Catalonian Devil]

Messi is as good a passer as Maradona, no question on that. I can think of 3 defence splitting assists in his most recent games - Tonights supercup assist for Cesc, the assist for Iniesta in the Supercopa and a frankly amazing pass to Aguero (think that was in the Copa America - EDIT Actually it was a friendly directly before vs Albania). And that's just a) recently and b) the ones that were scored. I think Messi is very likely as good a passer as Iniesta (slightly behind Xavi) but he plays in a different, higher pressured area of the pitch and attempts more direct forward passes looking to break down the opposition defence to get another of the front 3 to get into the space behind. This sort of passing is less likely to have a higher success rate than a Xavi or Iniesta who play deeper on the pitch and whose style is more incremental and less direct - (This is not a criticism of either, as the role they play demands it). Because of where he is positioned and how Barcelona play Messi is less required to play long side to side balls or long direct forward balls in the vein of a Beckham or Gerrard, but his accuracy of both long, short and mid is nothing short of brilliant where required. The thing that makes Messi so outstanding is that he is in the best 3 in the world for finishing, dribbling and playmaking. Having just one of those 3 is enough to make you world class, having 2 of those 3 makes you a once in a generation player, having all 3 elevates you amongst the greats - which is where Messi belongs.

Couldn't have said it better, well put.

 

[dalitis8]

The season has barely commenced and Messi already boasts 4 goals and 3 assists.

The boy is shameless.

 

[10Rivaldo]

Messi's overall ability helps him make better use of his passing skills. For example, I don't think Iniesta could ever make a pass like Messi did to assist Iniesta in the 2nd leg of Supercopa, picking out a pass after skinning several players all in half a second. Having said that, purely in terms of passing, Iniesta is marginally better imo, I don't think Messi can make an assist like Iniesta did in the Gamper match, for Keita.

 

[FiReFTW]

what Rivaldo said.

 

[gingerless]

And he was doing it with those short-shorts riding up his crotch too. Incredible.

I think Messi is just as good though, and he seems a better overall person...

holy fuck some of those passes are borderline insane