10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[89Norcal]

Damn those are clean!

 

[Deco 20]

"One should never believe everything one reads on the internet"

- Abraham Lincoln

If he said it, then it's true.

 

[Ender]

Messi's new boots:

Too bad Adidas cleats never fit me well. Love the color scheme.

 

[Jaguar]

 

[poldep]

Mourinho: "Some players leave the pitch on a stretcher, and then they're again totally fit two days later."

 

[ViscaBarca914]

I want to let that mans eye taste my finger of justice so bad...
Le sigh.
I love those boots btw. Really feeling those colors lol.

 

[Malappapper]

and how many of those voters actually saw those players??? messi best eva, i'm 15 years old. yee.

i wonder how many of those voters actually saw those players playing...

The fact that many 15 year-olds say that Messi is the best ever, does not in the least affect the possibility that he actually is the "best eva"

Also, many ex-managers and players that know the old all-time greats say the same thing. Now, that again does not make it a correct proposition automatically. One should begin with looking at the dead facts:

1. Messi is scoring at a rate we have not seen since footballers were mostly amateurs or semi-professionals. Moreover, in the olden days, footballers did not cover more than 5km per game and at a much slower pace than today's. In the olden days, the goal/game ration was much higher than today, yet Messi scores as if he was playing in the 40s or 60s for crying out loud.

2. The consistency with which Messi delivers goals+assists, is again unheard of. 4 times consecutive CL top scorer is out of this world for any number "9". But Messi is not a number "9", he has so much more to his game, yet he scores at a comparable rate with the best poachers of primitive times.

3. The way with which Messi is being marked by opposing teams is indicative of his majesty. As we are mostly Barca fans in here, we have all seen Messi repeatedly being marked by 2,3,4,5, sometime even more opponents. His presence forces even the best teams in Europe to radically alter their tactics, mostly in the hope of curtailing Messi's threat. I think only Diego Maradona caused the same amount of respect and fear.

4. Messi is outperforming Maradona by a colossal margin when it comes to goalscoring and assisting. I know that Napoli were significantly inferior to the current Barca, but in terms of club football, there can be no doubt that this is a no contest. Maradona never even came close to replicating Messi's productivity, nor did he ever come close to the European Cup. In fact he was shut out by a Soviet team and Real Madrid (then nothing super-spectacular) in the first rounds when Napoli contested that competition.

5. Messi is faster, has a better dribble, and is much healthier than Diego. Maradona was a crackhead, Messi drinks his orange juice and goes to bed. This makes a massive difference for anyone who half-understands the importance of diet for world-class athletes.

6. The only thing that Maradona has over Messi is the World Cup. Messi is seriously hampered here by an atrocious national side, that behind the forward line has 0 world class players. Not only that, a frankly laughable management by Diego Maradona himself in the previous World Cup made Argentina even worse than they should have been. That being said, lately Messi has started delivering for Argentina as well, and is close to breaking Maradona's record for goals scored for Argentina.

7. Let me point out again that football today is far superior to the game of previous decades for very tangible reasons. Better training, more professionalism, better diets, concentration of global talent in the few big leagues, concentration of virtually the entire global elite players in one competition (the CL) Inclusion of many vast areas of the world into the global football market (Africa, Arab countries etc etc)

8. Any rational approach to the question only leads to a conclusion that is extremely favorable to Messi. Most of the arguments against him are solipsistic/arbitrary: "I have seen player X play and he was better than Messi, "defenders back then were allowed to carry machine guns and double-edged axes" "Maradona won alone", "the Italian defenses of the 80s were made of a titanium/plutonium alloy designed by Nasa, and were guarded by Cerberus" "Pele scored over 3,000,000,000 goals in his backyard, and his backyard was better than today's La Liga"

Surely some of the things I say are a bit controversial, but the point that I am trying to make is that rational arguments are required to be brought against Messi being the best ever, and that has nothing to do with the age of the enunciator.

 

[Dan1983]

I miss the Henry-Eto-Messi combinations

So do I. It was my favourite front three of ours. 100 goals

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

and the award for best new poster goes to Malappapper.

 

[messi_xavi_iniesta]

Maradona led a shit team to glory. Agains 4-5 big teams in Italy at the time. He led Argentina to WC glory on his own. Videos don´t make him justice.

 

[tariqo]

the poiunt of this is not what i think. i've never said that messi is the best ever or barcelona. i always say that i've never seen other teams/players playing. although i've seen some of the full matches from past, like ac milan, the dutch team, some of the brazil games from 80's etc. not to mention some youtube compilations. but this gives me nothing to claim that one is better than other. and i've never claimed myself as an expert of football.

or what you think how we should treat those guys who claims that messi is the BEST ever, while they started to follow football 2 years ago because of messi and they are, lets say 20 years old? this is just beyond me. it's like voting for top3 player of the game, while you've seen only the goals or highlights of the game. a little sense is needed. of course i'm assuming a lot of things here, but i think i'm not very far away from the truth.

calm down bro

 

[Malappapper]

and the award for best new poster goes to Malappapper.

:beer2:

Thanx for the appreciation. Just wanted to make some of my views a bit clear.

 

[Malappapper]

Maradona led a shit team to glory. Agains 4-5 big teams in Italy at the time. He led Argentina to WC glory on his own. Videos don´t make him justice.

Napoli were far from shit back in the 80s. There were 3-4 teams that were somewhat better once you took Maradona off Napoli, but keep in mind that at that time you could buy at best 2-3 foreigners. Football was by definition more balanced in those days. So a couple of good foreigners back in those days, could make all the difference.

As for the much hyped AC Milan of Sacchi, well, they only came of age after the first Napoli title with the arrival of van Basten, and the next year with Gullit and Rijkaard. Their main priority was the European Cup which was won on both occasions in the absence of the English teams, and with great difficulty and controversy (Red Star Belgrade game called off by the ref with Milan staring elimination in the face) Very tight victories over Werder Bremen (1-0 on agg) KV Mechelen (2-0 aet) Bayern Munich (on away goals and AET) and Benfica (1-0 in the final)

Also keep in mind that the old European Cup was child's play compared to what we have today. Only one team from each country could participate, which meant that you could beat the champions of Luxembourg, Albania, Greece and Denmark and find yourself within striking distance of the big trophy.

 

[Jaykob]

The fact that many 15 year-olds say that Messi is the best ever, does not in the least affect the possibility that he actually is the "best eva"

Also, many ex-managers and players that know the old all-time greats say the same thing. Now, that again does not make it a correct proposition automatically. One should begin with looking at the dead facts:

1. Messi is scoring at a rate we have not seen since footballers were mostly amateurs or semi-professionals. Moreover, in the olden days, footballers did not cover more than 5km per game and at a much slower pace than today's. In the olden days, the goal/game ration was much higher than today, yet Messi scores as if he was playing in the 40s or 60s for crying out loud.

2. The consistency with which Messi delivers goals+assists, is again unheard of. 4 times consecutive CL top scorer is out of this world for any number "9". But Messi is not a number "9", he has so much more to his game, yet he scores at a comparable rate with the best poachers of primitive times.

3. The way with which Messi is being marked by opposing teams is indicative of his majesty. As we are mostly Barca fans in here, we have all seen Messi repeatedly being marked by 2,3,4,5, sometime even more opponents. His presence forces even the best teams in Europe to radically alter their tactics, mostly in the hope of curtailing Messi's threat. I think only Diego Maradona caused the same amount of respect and fear.

4. Messi is outperforming Maradona by a colossal margin when it comes to goalscoring and assisting. I know that Napoli were significantly inferior to the current Barca, but in terms of club football, there can be no doubt that this is a no contest. Maradona never even came close to replicating Messi's productivity, nor did he ever come close to the European Cup. In fact he was shut out by a Soviet team and Real Madrid (then nothing super-spectacular) in the first rounds when Napoli contested that competition.

5. Messi is faster, has a better dribble, and is much healthier than Diego. Maradona was a crackhead, Messi drinks his orange juice and goes to bed. This makes a massive difference for anyone who half-understands the importance of diet for world-class athletes.

6. The only thing that Maradona has over Messi is the World Cup. Messi is seriously hampered here by an atrocious national side, that behind the forward line has 0 world class players. Not only that, a frankly laughable management by Diego Maradona himself in the previous World Cup made Argentina even worse than they should have been. That being said, lately Messi has started delivering for Argentina as well, and is close to breaking Maradona's record for goals scored for Argentina.

7. Let me point out again that football today is far superior to the game of previous decades for very tangible reasons. Better training, more professionalism, better diets, concentration of global talent in the few big leagues, concentration of virtually the entire global elite players in one competition (the CL) Inclusion of many vast areas of the world into the global football market (Africa, Arab countries etc etc)

8. Any rational approach to the question only leads to a conclusion that is extremely favorable to Messi. Most of the arguments against him are solipsistic/arbitrary: "I have seen player X play and he was better than Messi, "defenders back then were allowed to carry machine guns and double-edged axes" "Maradona won alone", "the Italian defenses of the 80s were made of a titanium/plutonium alloy designed by Nasa, and were guarded by Cerberus" "Pele scored over 3,000,000,000 goals in his backyard, and his backyard was better than today's La Liga"

Surely some of the things I say are a bit controversial, but the point that I am trying to make is that rational arguments are required to be brought against Messi being the best ever, and that has nothing to do with the age of the enunciator.

This and only this, I wanted to write something like this for a long time, but you already did it

 

[Leo10]