10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[ricknattery]

literally everything positive offensivly we do goes through Messi.. if he does not score, assist, or beat a lot of men then play a good pass, we do not get close to the gol.. I have never in my life seen a team depend so heavily on someone to get the attack going...

I agree and I have no idea why that is happening, I mean, we have Iniesta, Xavi, Villa, Pedro, Cesc to create or score goals, how have they become so complacent in recent seasons??? Messidependencia is something we will take a long time to get rid off once the time comes. It is awesome to have a player like Messi, but he is not playing the sport forever nonstop. Those guys I mentioned need to wake up in terms of producing goals, not just creating beautiful football

 

[Ursegor]

I just don't think any of them can match Messi's combination of goalscoring, dribbling, and through balls.

Maradona was an even better and more creative passer than Messi since Maradona was a genuine #10 and playmaker who would dictate the pace of a game. Not a playmaking forward / false 9 who drops deep and tries the killer ball. But then again Messi is only 25. He might drop even deeper and play more withdrawn and take more control of games in a few years. Maradona's dribbling wasn't too shabby either.

(I can't post more than 1 video, fss).

Was Maradona as good a goalscorer as Messi? Well. Maradona played for Napoli in the Serie A of the 80s. Platini's and Laudrup's Juventus with Scirea (some say he was better than Beckenbauer) and Gentile (whose manmarking of Maradona and Zico in 1982 helped Italy win the WC) at the back. Sacchi's Milan. Sampdoria with Vierchowod at the back and Mancini upfront (Sampdoria won their one and only Scudetto in that era). Roma led by Falcao (you know, one of the Brazil 1982 legends) etc. So yes. Maradona didn't score 10 hattricks in a season under these circumstances playing for little Napoli. But I'm sure if he played in a stacked team with basically 10 World Cup winners on his side in an unbalanced league (Barcelona's estimated squad value: € 650 million; Zaragoza's estimated squad value: € 40 million), he would have score much more. But that's the downside of football and statistics. Statistically Mario Gomez is a better forward than Maradona.

The Brazilian Ronaldo is also up there IMO. He was an even better poacher than Messi and his dribbling before his injury was on paper. He didn't have the playmaking ability though. I think Zico is also extremely underrated in these discussions. But yes. Messi is pretty complete as a footballer. And he hasn't peaked yet. So let's wait a couple more years until we declare him the GOAT, shall we? He has like 8 more years at the very top.

 

[Leo10]

literally everything positive offensivly we do goes through Messi.. if he does not score, assist, or beat a lot of men then play a good pass, we do not get close to the gol.. I have never in my life seen a team depend so heavily on someone to get the attack going...

It takes way too long for the other players to create something dangerous. They can pass for several minutes without getting ahead one meter not to mention a shot on target.
When Messi gets the ball he will lose it half of the time but the other half will go directly to the post match highlights.

Why did Maradona copy the Messi goal vs Getafe, can't he come up with something original?

 

[FCBarca]

literally everything positive offensivly we do goes through Messi.. if he does not score, assist, or beat a lot of men then play a good pass, we do not get close to the gol.. I have never in my life seen a team depend so heavily on someone to get the attack going...

Absolutely and it's alarming, IMO - regardless of the wins...As far as I can see, the only other aggressive player is Tello & occasionally Pedro - otherwise the rest of the team is seemingly waiting to assist Leo rather than give it a go themselves...Not a way to make a complete team

I imagine that doesn't help players like Villa who are accustomed to taking their chances...Feels like Messi-dependencia

 

[jiopi]

The commentator on Sky said Messi made the second finish look so easy, that looked like a tap in from 20 yards.

 

[FCBarca]

It really was a pretty goal and the calm with which he picked out where to place the shot was like he was on the training ground and there were no defenders...Rare to see him get that much time/space in front of goal these days, all the result of that quick counter

 

[jiopi]

Absolutely and it's alarming, IMO - regardless of the wins...As far as I can see, the only other aggressive player is Tello & occasionally Pedro - otherwise the rest of the team is seemingly waiting to assist Leo rather than give it a go themselves...Not a way to make a complete team

I imagine that doesn't help players like Villa who are accustomed to taking their chances...Feels like Messi-dependencia

I think Pedro's problem is that he runs too much on the field, at least that's how it feels nowadays for me. And when the ball comes to him, he's too tired physically and mentally to try to do something imaginative with it, and just resorts usually for the back pass.

 

[FCBarca]

Where are his shots on goal?...I remember him getting and receiving more shots on goal...As diegomessi pointed out, everything seems to come back to Leo...Makes us too one dimensional, even if that dimension is superior to all others...The team can play better, as a team

 

[jiopi]

Just checked whoscored and he has actually gotten more shots and dribbles per game than last season, surprisingly. Maybe it's just that his shooting positions are not as good as they used to be.

Pedro La Liga
12-13 1.5 SpG 0.7 DpG
11-12 1.4 SpG 0.3 DpG

 

[xaviniesta]

the first goal was just unbelivable. it also defines messi so well. he is like he doesn't know what to do before he recives the ball, but he is much much quicker than anybody else to react it first. if he would've taken the first touch with his left foot he would've lost the ball. the defender who came at him anticipated that he would take it with his left, but he made this tiny tiny drop of shoulder and let the ball run to his right foot and off he goes. i mean this is such a smaal thing to notice but thats what makes him different to the rest and almost impossible to mark.

the finish was sublime also. for me it was a golazo. great movement with alba and villa as well.

 

[Rahj]

I am becoming more and more convinced that Messi is absolutely the greatest player ever, and certainly has the highest peak of any player.

The man dribbles as well as Maradona, gets into position and shoots as accurately as Gerd Muller, and in the last year and a half has been giving through balls like Michael Laudrup (particularly last season). That combination is about as much of an unstoppable goal-scoring/creating combination as possible.

To add to that, he is a fantastic short possession passer. No, he's not Xavi, but you really do have to be a world-class possession passer to fit into the passing scheme at present-day Barca. Very, very few midfielders in the world could do it, and Messi absolutely can fall back into the midfield and fit in.Yes, he loses the ball more than the others, but that is because he goes on runs and tries through balls more, not because his short passing isn't on par. Think about this. Messi is a forward who also ranked 9th in La Liga last year in passes per match and 6th in the Champions League (with 80.9 passes per match in the CL, at an 87% success rate). That is absurd and largely unheard of involvement in possession for a forward.

Similarly, he has a real good work rate for a star forward. He certainly has some games where his work rate isn't very good (as you'd expect from a star forward playing 60 matches a season + NT matches), but the Barca system involves an insane amount of pressing, and usually Messi is well involved in this. You certainly see him tracking back and pressing more than you saw from most other players among the best ever (since most of them were star forwards like Pele or purely offensive AMs like Zidane).

So in my mind, here's what we have. Between his dribbling ability, positioning, and accuracy, Messi is possibly the best goalscorer ever. Between his dribbling ability and through balls, he is possibly the best forward ever at directly creating goals for others. His involvement in the possession game is unheard of for forwards, and his work rate is far above average for a star forward.

I just can't justify putting anyone ahead of him. Pele had similar goalscoring and was a great passer, but I think Messi's superior dribbling allows him to create more for the team than Pele could. Maradona's direct creation for others through dribbling and through balls was similar (for those who think Maradona was better in this regard, watch videos of Messi's through balls last year; it truly is on par with Maradona), while his contribution to the possession game was even better. However, Messi was a far better goalscorer, which IMO definitely is more important. I'd also say Messi's work rate was a bit better. Cruyff's creation for others was pretty similar, as was his contribution to short passing. His work rate was even better than Messi's, but Messi's edge in goalscoring puts him ahead again in my view. There are others who people might list as the best ever, but those are the main people. I just don't think any of them can match Messi's combination of goalscoring, dribbling, and through balls.

summary: messi = danger.

 

[MMKa]

They tried once actually. Nothing else. I remember one of them, where Villa tried to assist Messi, but Messi didn't even try to run as he would normally do, like if he knew Villa wouldn't pass him the ball.

It was Villa not running to Messis pass. Bad pass from Messi, though.

 

[FCBarca]

the first goal was just unbelivable. it also defines messi so well. he is like he doesn't know what to do before he recives the ball, but he is much much quicker than anybody else to react it first. if he would've taken the first touch with his left foot he would've lost the ball. the defender who came at him anticipated that he would take it with his left, but he made this tiny tiny drop of shoulder and let the ball run to his right foot and off he goes. i mean this is such a smaal thing to notice but thats what makes him different to the rest and almost impossible to mark.

the finish was sublime also. for me it was a golazo. great movement with alba and villa as well.

Yeah, that little touch ahead of the 1st goal to free himself for the shot was subtle but underscored his brilliance...It's the little things honestly and sure the golazos are amazing but those little things really get me

 

[jtmx12]

I agree and I have no idea why that is happening, I mean, we have Iniesta, Xavi, Villa, Pedro, Cesc to create or score goals, how have they become so complacent in recent seasons??? Messidependencia is something we will take a long time to get rid off once the time comes. It is awesome to have a player like Messi, but he is not playing the sport forever nonstop. Those guys I mentioned need to wake up in terms of producing goals, not just creating beautiful football

In the first goal Villa made a good run that could have left him alone in front of the goalkeeper, however Alba passed the ball to Messi instead.

In the third goal, Villa made a good run as a 9, but Montoya passed the ball to Messi instead.

The reason why there's Messi dependency is because that's how Barca wants it to be. When a guy is about to pass the ball, or assist another player, imagine there's 3 options, and one of them is Messi. Everyone will always choose this option and forget about the rest. That's what I saw this match at least.

 

[xaviniesta]

In the first goal Villa made a good run that could have left him alone in front of the goalkeeper, however Alba passed the ball to Messi instead.

In the third goal, Villa made a good run as a 9, but Montoya passed the ball to Messi instead.

first one i thought that too alba that alba's gonna make the first time pass to villa he had space ahead of him and would've gone 1v1 with the keeper.

second one villa and pedro made runs into box but so did the defenders. i think it was the right chice by montoya to drag it back to messi because he was so free there. crosses into box have never been barca's forte anyway.

but i agree, passers should really notice more villa/pedro etc runs more often and give them some troughballs as well. i remember only once alba gave a troughball to tello in this game besides messi...