10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[rivaldo10]

i want messi to play as a classic 10 so we dont rely on messi that much to score goals

"If you just wanted to totally build the team around Messi"

the team we have right now is build around messi so he can score goals

And the problem is when he dont perform we get games like bayern or when he isnt on the field games like psg

 

[oz187]

The problem with that is that the formation is disjointed and the team is very exposed on the right wing defensively. Also Alves isn't going to make runs in behind the defense for through balls. Ultimately there is no perfect option, whatever you do there is going to be a tradeoff somewhere. If the club sell Fabregas that would pretty much raise the funds to make it possible.

The current team isn't totally built around Messi. It's built around the Xaviesta axis in a way that maximises Messi. However with no striker to occupy the defenders it puts a lot of pressure on him.

 

[Kerrybai]

If you just wanted to totally build the team around Messi and maximising his potential you'd do something like the following:

---------------------Valdes--------------------
-----------------------------------------------
---------------Pique---------Puyol-------------
Alves--------------------------------------Alba
------------Busquets-----------Song-----------
-----------------------------------------------
Alexis-----------------Messi-------------Neymar
-----------------------------------------------
----------------------Falcao-------------------

He gets protection from the DMs, Falcao occupying the central defenders and creating space, with options on both wings. This team would be pretty much unbeatable. Of course this makes Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas and Thiago redundant so you could sell them and look to invest in DMs and forwards. But that's if you just totally wanted to build the team around Messi.

You probably should have mentioned your formation idea when you suggested selling Xavi and Iniesta in the Match Thread so that people could understand your point :beer2:

Have you looked at Argentina lately? Another member posted their formation recently.

It's basically 4-3-3 but the players operate differently to ours with Higuain often moving into a central forward position to occupy defenders. I don;t have a great understanding of how Argentina play though so I can't comment on it much but you might find it interesting.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/10/15/argentina-3-0-uruguay-messi-the-main-man/

 

[oz187]

You probably should have mentioned your formation idea when you suggested selling Xavi and Iniesta in the Match Thread so that people could understand your point :beer2:

Nah, this way was more fun and got a better reaction.

Argentina is interesting. It's another disjointed formation. It utilises the players abilities, but doesn't take advantage of all the space on the pitch. Up against a well drilled team(like Germany) I could see some serious difficulties.

The reason it does work is because the striker occupies the two centrebacks. Then Messi is central and will occupy two midfielders. So you've got 2 players occupying 4. This makes it a lot harder to attack Argentina and gives them a big advantage. With a false 9 you just need 1 person marking Messi, if he beats him he's still got the two CBs to deal with and other midfielders closing in. However if there is a striker, 1 marker isn't enough because once beaten it'll leave Messi bearing down on goal with a striker to link up with and you'd have a 2 on 2.

 

[Yannick03]

I also think we should play a striker in front of Messi but remain loyal to the 4-3-3 formation. One of the two wingers should move in between the central defenders in front of Messi so Leo can do his thing between the opponents midfield and defence. Villa did this superbly against Milan for instance.

If he's fit, I hope he plays and we can see some Messi magic again, it's been a while. If he still isn't 100% fit I hope Tito rests him.

 

[Stric]

I also think we should play a striker in front of Messi but remain loyal to the 4-3-3 formation. One of the two wingers should move in between the central defenders in front of Messi so Leo can do his thing between the opponents midfield and defence. Villa did this superbly against Milan for instance.

If he's fit, I hope he plays and we can see some Messi magic again, it's been a while. If he still isn't 100% fit I hope Tito rests him.

This is the way to go and Villa is the appropriate type of player for that. Once the winger goes central, the fullback on his side goes up front and stretches the attack. This is what Villa and Alves have been doing, although I'd bet anything that it would work better if Villa was coming in from the left and Alba was going forward. But, oh well... It seems that Alves' friendship with Messi is more important to the staff than the fact that he's been crap in most games he's played this season.

 

[Flavia]

The problem with that is that the formation is disjointed and the team is very exposed on the right wing defensively. Also Alves isn't going to make runs in behind the defense for through balls. Ultimately there is no perfect option, whatever you do there is going to be a tradeoff somewhere. If the club sell Fabregas that would pretty much raise the funds to make it possible.

The current team isn't totally built around Messi. It's built around the Xaviesta axis in a way that maximises Messi. However with no striker to occupy the defenders it puts a lot of pressure on him.

That's how the team played milan at home. Didnt look disjointed to me.

 

[Kerrybai]

Nah, this way was more fun and got a better reaction.

Argentina is interesting. It's another disjointed formation. It utilises the players abilities, but doesn't take advantage of all the space on the pitch. Up against a well drilled team(like Germany) I could see some serious difficulties.

The reason it does work is because the striker occupies the two centrebacks. Then Messi is central and will occupy two midfielders. So you've got 2 players occupying 4. This makes it a lot harder to attack Argentina and gives them a big advantage. With a false 9 you just need 1 person marking Messi, if he beats him he's still got the two CBs to deal with and other midfielders closing in. However if there is a striker, 1 marker isn't enough because once beaten it'll leave Messi bearing down on goal with a striker to link up with and you'd have a 2 on 2.

Ah thanks for the reply, I understand their setup better now. I like the current way Argentina play Messi, but I think it relies on having other consistent goalscorers in the team. He's much more of a playmaker in the Argentina setup and with the quality of players around him the burden of goalscoring is lifted from his shoulders.

 

[loozy]

Ah thanks for the reply, I understand their setup better now. I like the current way Argentina play Messi, but I think it relies on having other consistent goalscorers in the team. He's much more of a playmaker in the Argentina setup and with the quality of players around him the burden of goalscoring is lifted from his shoulders.

He has quality attacking players surrounding him, though. Pipita and di Maria and Aguero... That makes me salivate, tbh.

 

[rivaldo10]

i my opinion messi is a better passer and playmaker then xavi and iniesta

 

[Indignado]

i my opinion messi is a better passer and playmaker then xavi and iniesta

That's because Messi is a better everything than everyone.

 

[Yannick03]

That's because Messi is a better everything than everyone.

But isn't the most complete

 

[oz187]

That's how the team played milan at home. Didnt look disjointed to me.

It didn't? There were huge spaces on the left for Milan to exploit. Sure Barca played great, but this is against Milan and also they maybe weren't prepared for the formation. Imagine doing that against Bayern, you could get Ribery getting free runs at Bartra/Pique. If your leftback does a good job on Alves, you could shift the rest of the team across and reduce the space in the centre and opposite half of the pitch.

In essense if Alves can stay forward and it is played as a 3-3-4 it is more balanced, but if you are countering on the left and forcing Alves up and down the wing it can make it difficult. It's probably the best formation to play, especially at home and chasing the game but there are disadvantages to it.

 

[Luftstalag14]

i my opinion messi is a better passer and playmaker then xavi and iniesta

No way. For one thing, Messi does not seem to have the absolutely astute vision that Xavi and Iniesta possess. Rarely do I see Messi unleashing the type pf visionary long passes that Xavi is known for. Also Messi had a lot more missed passes than the two midfield masters.

 

[Kerrybai]

No way. For one thing, Messi does not seem to have the absolutely astute vision that Xavi and Iniesta possess. Rarely do I see Messi unleashing the type pf visionary long passes that Xavi is known for. Also Messi had a lot more missed passes than the two midfield masters.

I think that is largely to do with where Messi resceives the ball. Xavi and Inesta tend to receive the ball under much less pressure than Messi therefore are under less pressure when selecting a pass.