10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[suckabov]

The minute someone provides a thoughtful explanation about how he feels the extent and reasons for Messi's form has been he gets jumped on and hounded by a swarm of Messi fan boys. Not a good look in terms of allowing a spirited debate to evolve, instead passing someone's opinion off as crazy or out of touch. Too much blind fanboyism going on for me.

There are two issues with this: First, the wording "Messi's form has been" indicates a problem with his form that has lasted for quite a while now, which honestly, I don't really see. After coming back from that most recent injury, he's had a good performance against Real Madrid and a superb one against Celta. One quiet game is no reason to talk about Messi's form this year in general, as many have done. Because before that injury, you can't really argue against Messi having been brilliant this season, barring the Atletico game perhaps. How he single-handedly saved the win against Sevilla, how he made that run to win the ball back against Levante (one of the best pieces of "pressing" I have seen this season from anyone), how he despite everything has managed to score 12 goals so far... I don't see any cause for worry there at all. Second, thoughtful explanations are great but at this stage, everything about Messi's form or lack of form is nothing but pure speculation. The only leads we have is what he himself said (Physically I'm not 100%) and how he performs in games. I personally see no indication whatsoever for Messi "having lost it", "being past his prime" or "not trying hard enough", which were some of the "thoughtful" reasons people suggested. If you like explanations that aren't based on anything but pure speculation, go ahead. But the extent to which that has been done on here is a bit over the board. Overreactions in my opinion.

 

[abual3bed1]

You contradicting yourself. You've just said that Barcelona, Messi included, has declined. Which is true and, again, normal.

Pep's era was something out of this world. Everything about it was extraordinary. Football played in that era will never be matched, it doesn't mean that the team declined. That time had all the players in the team peaking to the absolute best of each and every individual in that team. It was an extreme peak time with Pep. Things have changed since that. Doesn't mean declining.

 

[serghei]

the minute someone provides a thoughtful explanation about how he feels the extent and reasons for messi's form has been he gets jumped on and hounded by a swarm of messi fan boys. Not a good look in terms of allowing a spirited debate to evolve, instead passing someone's opinion off as crazy or out of touch. Too much blind fanboyism going on for me.

Exactly. Great comment.

 

[ThwiX]

Thoughtful explanation? Some of the overreactions why he is only on 12 goals and 4 assists in 11 starts in an injury-ridden season under new tactics are unreal, man. Did he also "lose interest" or "decline" or "pace himself" when he scored hattricks against Ajax and Valencia or made that dribble in the 93th minute to win the game against Sevilla? Did he get visibly mad for getting subbed off in the 80th minute against Real Sociedad because he wants to "save himself for the World Cup"? And how does "pacing himself" work anyway? His dribbling numbers per game are even higher than last year which suggest that he doesn't avoid physical contact deliberately and he's also pressing again under Tata. I've never seen Messi work as hard under Guardiola or Tito as he did against Real Madrid this year despite not being fit. He was sweating like a pig around the 40 minute mark. Does Iniesta also save himself for Spain or did he lose interest? Unlike Messi, I haven't seen Iniesta play to his usual standards even once this season. And why would Neymar unsettle Messi? Unlike Ibra he doesn't play in his position and unlike Villa or Tello he doesn't pull the trigger everytime instead of passing the ball. On the contrary, he dishes out more assists than anyone else in Europe right now and keeps praising Messi in every single interview since he arrived. No, even before he arrived.

He came back from injury in a tough schedule and got played further away from goal for tactical reasons in many of those games. Against Milan he will score 5 goals or something.

Another great post. You and Jiopi really belong in this thread to show how clueless the critics and haters are.

BTW, is Jiopi banned?

 

[FCBarca]

Thoughtful explanation? Some of the overreactions why he is only on 12 goals and 4 assists in 11 starts in an injury-ridden season under new tactics are unreal, man. Did he also "lose interest" or "decline" or "pace himself" when he scored hattricks against Ajax and Valencia or made that dribble in the 93th minute to win the game against Sevilla? Did he get visibly mad for getting subbed off in the 80th minute against Real Sociedad because he wants to "save himself for the World Cup"? And how does "pacing himself" work anyway? His dribbling numbers per game are even higher than last year which suggest that he doesn't avoid physical contact deliberately and he's also pressing again under Tata. I've never seen Messi work as hard under Guardiola or Tito as he did against Real Madrid this year despite not being fit. He was sweating like a pig around the 40 minute mark. Does Iniesta also save himself for Spain or did he lose interest? Unlike Messi, I haven't seen Iniesta play to his usual standards even once this season. And why would Neymar unsettle Messi? Unlike Ibra he doesn't play in his position and unlike Villa or Tello he doesn't pull the trigger everytime instead of passing the ball. On the contrary, he dishes out more assists than anyone else in Europe right now and keeps praising Messi in every single interview since he arrived. No, even before he arrived.

He came back from injury in a tough schedule and got played further away from goal for tactical reasons in many of those games. Against Milan he will score 5 goals or something.

This isn't baseball where stats are king, you have to observe the players & the play...If you look at Messi and his performances over the past couple of weeks, there's no way anyone can legitimately claim he's 100%...Whether that's down to fitness or any other factor, no one knows but it's clear something is off.

Some of us have already said similar over Iniesta and even Xavi whose influence in matches have been palpably absent...Perhaps it is indeed Tata

If you haven't already seen where Neymar's future position in this squad is (Leo's spot) then you clearly haven't been paying attention and being unsettled doesn't equate to having a personal beef with a player, it can be a variety of other indirect factors...Media focus at the club has typically been focused on Leo but with Neymar emerging as a star at the club, the spotlight has shifted to the Brasilian and his Nike PR machine...It is merely a possibility, one that others with more understanding of the club, the players & football have alluded to before he even arrived...Nothing to do with Neymar possibly being an Ibra, that's an unimaginative conclusion/comparison to make.

Learn to read body language, Leo's will reveal something not being quite right...And as I already pointed out, Sport isn't as reliable as MD when it comes to club matters at present but they rarely dish on key players, nevermind Messi...We've already read previously that Xavi had a talk with Tata due to concerns over tactics so perhaps the reported meeting was more about this than Leo himself...However, something appears to be going on behind the scenes

 

[DonAK]

Leo have had a hard time lately. The Tax evasion issue, the injuries, all the media agenda against him and so on.

He is not yet 100% and may take a bit more time to settle down and regain his form and full fitness. Im not worried YET, but if this continues for the next 3-4 games then yes, something must be done then.

 

[BigBarcaBoy]

Leo have had a hard time lately. The Tax evasion issue, the injuries, all the media agenda against him and so on.

He is not yet 100% and may take a bit more time to settle down and regain his form and full fitness. Im not worried YET, but if this continues for the next 3-4 games then yes, something must be done then.

something must be done, what do you suggest ?. I'm not worried at all, one bad game against asspanyol and their flat back 10 and people are going overboard again.

 

[CatalinR10]

This season in top 5 leagues.

 

[DonAK]

something must be done, what do you suggest ?. I'm not worried at all, one bad game against asspanyol and their flat back 10 and people are going overboard again.

Well, as I said, im not worried yet. I don't think he has a problem other than not being fully fit which he himself said.

If he has a bad run of some matches then I guess the management and team docs need to evaluate and sound him out, but I personally doubt it will happen. As you said, he had one bad game vs Espanyol, but he was amazing vs Celta albeit unlucky to not score due to a great performance by their GK.

 

[serghei]

This isn't baseball where stats are king, you have to observe the players & the play...If you look at Messi and his performances over the past couple of weeks, there's no way anyone can legitimately claim he's 100%...Whether that's down to fitness or any other factor, no one knows but it's clear something is off.

Some of us have already said similar over Iniesta and even Xavi whose influence in matches have been palpably absent...Perhaps it is indeed Tata

If you haven't already seen where Neymar's future position in this squad is (Leo's spot) then you clearly haven't been paying attention and being unsettled doesn't equate to having a personal beef with a player, it can be a variety of other indirect factors...Media focus at the club has typically been focused on Leo but with Neymar emerging as a star at the club, the spotlight has shifted to the Brasilian and his Nike PR machine...It is merely a possibility, one that others with more understanding of the club, the players & football have alluded to before he even arrived...Nothing to do with Neymar possibly being an Ibra, that's an unimaginative conclusion/comparison to make.

Learn to read body language, Leo's will reveal something not being quite right...And as I already pointed out, Sport isn't as reliable as MD when it comes to club matters at present but they rarely dish on key players, nevermind Messi...We've already read previously that Xavi had a talk with Tata due to concerns over tactics so perhaps the reported meeting was more about this than Leo himself...However, something appears to be going on behind the scenes

The highlighted part is something many are worried about, but few have the guts to say it out loud like you did right there. There is something that is missing here, but I DO NOT think it's Tata's fault. Villanova has put Messi on a piedestal, the team was literally playing for him to score goals and win matches. That is not normal, nor a durable tactic. Not to speak that it can create havoc in a team. Martino has changed that. He does not treat Messi preferentially and Messi himself shoud stop acting like a spoiled kid whose toy has been taken away from him by his father and realise he's just a part in the mecanism that is a football team not the team itself. Tata asks him to play in the right? He should respect that and give everything as a winger. Hell, he won his first Ballon d'Or by playing there.

In a team the coach calls the shots. We have a record number of points in La Liga, we won the clasico and we are first in the Champions. Tata Martino has my support. He has earned the right to impose his own philosophy.I remember Neymar said when he was transfered to Barca that he has come on Camp Nou to help Messi remain the best in the world. WTF is this shit? Since when players come here to be Messi's right hand or help Messi do this and that? That comment pissed me off big time. I've been a fan of Barca well before Messi's time and I don't think a club that huge can ever depend on a single player, no matter how great of a player. Messi should cut the crap and get back to work.

Messi has shown some signs who suggest that his ego is getting in his way of being extraordinary again. The "Messia" crap has got too much in his head and he started to think he is more than one player.

 

[hopkinfrog]

Messi has shown some signs who suggest that his ego is getting in his way of being extraordinary again. The "Messia" crap has got too much in his head and he started to think he is more than one player.

This is a fair point - but if it is the case, it is in the club's interest to keep Messi content if this is what keeps him in form. I think that Barca need a > 90% Messi if they are to win the Champion's League and the league.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

He does not treat Messi preferentially and Messi himself shoud stop acting like a spoiled kid whose toy has been taken away from him by his father and realise he's just a part in the mecanism that is a football team

Tata asks him to play in the right? He should respect that

Messi should cut the crap and get back to work.

Messi has shown some signs who suggest that his ego is getting in his way of being extraordinary again. The "Messia" crap has got too much in his head and he started to think he is more than one player.

I've seen points based on assumptions, but entire arguments? Come on, don't be ridiculous, no one here knows what's up with Messi and don't even start giving me BS about "body language" and "he's just not the same anymore", it's been 4 decent games after a string of injuries, if he's still like this by January then you have a point, but for now please don't be silly.

 

[serghei]

I've seen points based on assumptions, but entire arguments? Come on, don't be ridiculous, no one here knows what's up with Messi and don't even start giving me BS about "body language" and "he's just not the same anymore", it's been 4 decent games after a string of injuries, if he's still like this by January then you have a point, but for now please don't be silly.

It's an opinion, Semi-Neutral. Interpretation of facts. You chose to think Messi will be fine, I'm more skeptical. I'm worried this could turn out very bad for all parties involved. But let's hope he will step it up and things will get better for everyone.

No one knows what is happening with Messi. We are all making assuptions. Mine is more pessimistic, which is odd, 'cause I usually see the bright side of things. But with Messi, I'm really worried.

 

[Zuess99]

i feel like crying . what going on ...

 

[Semi-Neutral]

It didn't seem like an opinion to me from the way you worded it. Might have been just me but you said those things like they were facts.

Regardless, I think it's way too soon to judge, let's wait some more, Wednesday's game should be a good indicator, as he should be feeling back to his best and will be looking to rip apart Milan.