10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Ursegor]

I was hoping you'd say 2 WC CBs, allowing Piqué to join Shakira on her world tours. You're not worthy of your tag I say.

It was on my mind, I swear. I ... just tried to be politically correct.

 

[klc123]

As I go through the pages I'm finding it harder and harder to stop myself thinking this is all just childish hype and overreaction. Not a single respectable new outlet has posted about messi falling out with Enrique. The only coincidence is this Instagram bullshit has happened directly after Zubi getting sacked. I think puyol resigning is much more important as a statement.

 

[Jadentheman]

Ah the meldowns are coming in thick and fast. Let me catch up...

And with a transfer ban coming up, oh boy.

This team actually got worse. It was a false hope

 

[Lomar1o]

In that case we agree.



Madrid have a new, young, fresh and hungry team. Players like James, Kroos and Isco haven't won 5 European Cups and half a dozen La Liga titles like Iniesta and Xavi and they are all 25 or younger. Only Rakitic and Rafinha are compareable to them in terms of motivation but frankly they aren't on the same talent level. Isco was the U21 Ballon d'Or winner in 2012, James was the inofficial MVP and top scorer of the World Cup and Kroos is a starter for the best national team in the world. Oh yeah, they've got Modric as well who is pretty good. Rafinha and Rakitic aren't on the same level. 22 year old Carvajal vs. Alves? No debate there. Ronaldo is obsessed with goals, Messi walks around the pitch as if he's auditioning for a new episode of The Walking Dead:

Pepe and Ramos are 2 strong, tall, bullish, fast, experienced defenders. Barca's best defender is apparently ... Marc Bartra. Much love for his determination but he's not a top class defender that anyone outside of Barca would rate.

So to answer your question. They aren't bus drivers. They are simply better.

no sh*t. i never said that they weren't better, there are many players who don't even play for real madrid or bayern who are better than our players, but that doesn't mean that our players can't be better than they are now. that's why i keep saying that we CAN NOT be challenging on all three fronts with the CURRENT squad and this isn't even what we are asking for. we are asking for the best the current team can offer, which is clearly more than they are currently offering.

messi walked around the pitch in the WC too, so stop with this bs. he either has a problem like low stamina, wants to boycott against lucho or isn't motivated. no surprise he isn't motivated tho', the club is in shambles. THAT is exactly why we want a better coach who can motivate the players more and better. and that is exactly how the players will start giving more. XAVI is NOT included. he should've been on the bench instead of thiago years ago. iniesta shouldn't be a starter either. but he can still be utilized more than xavi. this is how we should start fixing things. but with lucho it will not be happening and you are okay with that. see? you don't need to be a part time bus driver to play with more dedication. back to messi's walking. im sure currently messi is more fed up with losing than winning. if you think that healthy messi would WALK in current real, bayern or chelsea then you're simply wrong, so what was the point of showing me the video? you only discredited lucho with that.

my point is we have somewhat new fresh players who can become hungry and motivated, but our idiot coach (who you support i repeat) is still utilizing the old squad. that's what WE DON'T LIKE and want to be changed. i dont care how badly rafinha-rakitic will play, under a good manager it is still better than current xavi-iniesta. we are faceless, that's what we want to be changed.

 

[klc123]

no sh*t. i never said that they weren't better, there are many players who don't even play for real madrid or bayern who are better than our players, but that doesn't mean that our players can't be better than they are now. that's why i keep saying that we CAN NOT be challenging on all three fronts with the CURRENT squad and this isn't even what we are asking for. we are asking for the best the current team can offer, which is clearly more than they are currently offering.

messi walked around the pitch in the WC too, so stop with this bs. he either has a problem like low stamina, wants to boycott against lucho or isn't motivated. no surprise he isn't motivated tho', the club is in shambles. THAT is exactly why we want a better coach who can motivate the players more and better. and that is exactly how the players will start giving more. XAVI is NOT included. he should've been on the bench instead of thiago years ago. iniesta shouldn't be a starter either. but he can still be utilized more than xavi. this is how we should start fixing things. but with lucho it will not be happening and you are okay with that. see? you don't need to be a part time bus driver to play with more dedication. back to messi's walking. im sure currently messi is more fed up with losing than winning. if you think that healthy messi would WALK in current real, bayern or chelsea then you're simply wrong, so what was the point of showing me the video? you only discredited lucho with that.

my point is we have somewhat new fresh players who can become hungry and motivated, but our idiot coach (who you support i repeat) is still utilizing the old squad. that's what WE DON'T LIKE and want to be changed. i dont care how badly rafinha-rakitic will play, under a good manager it is still better than current xavi-iniesta. we are faceless, that's what we want to be changed.

Any football pundit who knows anything about football will tell you tha barcas best midfield is currently busquets-rakitic-Iniesta. It doesn't matter what people post on here, that will not change unless someone shoots Iniesta in the knee.

Iniesta this season
18 games
4 goals
7 assists

David silva for comparison
20 games
6 goals
2 assists

Are you going to tell me silva is shit too?

Gotze
23 games
11 goals
2 assists

Considering he plays in a much better team with a better manager, his stats aren't that much better.

Isco
Games 23
Goals 3
Assists 5
Guess he's shit too, not good enough for barca.

 

[evilhita666]

How many times it has to be said that stats mean nothing...

Silva and Isco are winning games for their team (haven't watched much of Gotze this season) something Iniesta hasn't done in a loooong time... The sad part is that he is indeed our best midfielder, which tells the whole story...

 

[Morten]

Does Iniesta have 4 goals and 7 assist in 18 games? According to some in here it sounds like he has zero of both. But then, according to some, he was only good because of Messi and Xavi.

 

[Chainsaw]

Does Iniesta have 4 goals and 7 assist in 18 games? According to some in here it sounds like he has zero of both. But then, according to some, he was only good because of Messi and Xavi.

Messi was only good because of Xaviniesta. Xavi was only good because of Messiniesta. Iniesta was only good because of Xavimessi.

Source: Internet

 

[DonAndres]

However appointing a new random coach in the middle of the season with a transfer ban and the same old squad will do absolutely nothing to improve the situation.

TL;DR: Just accept mediocrity until summer 2016.

Accepting mediocrity for a year and a half is the antithesis of 'keep on fighting for all titles'. Accepting this trajectory without trying to mitigate it will make our participation in all 3 major competitions a mere formality, because we won't be 'challenging' for anything the way things are going. Bayern and Real have built themselves up to a level where we can't match up to them in either our tactics or roster (with the transfer ban) but we can still be a heavyweight with some short term change.

I see that people are equating us now to the Moudrid of 12/13 where they went trophyless. They too had a lot of internal turmoil: They had Mourinho clashing with players, played like shit in the league (losing to the likes of Granada, Betis, conceding 3 against Malaga), and lost against total rookie underdogs Dortmund and Atleti in the cup competitions. Their squad was considered to be full of bang average players in the starting lineup (Benz wasn't dependable, Modric voted worst signing of the season, Arbeloa was Arbeloa, inconsistent Di Maria, Pepe/Ramos were boneheaded and brainless, Özil underperforming, Khedira was Khedira, and their GK was an average Diego Lopez bought as an emergency transfer).

Yet fast forward a year from that laughable season and they won the CL and CDR harassing top class teams along the way and were in the fight for the league until the last few games. All of this with pretty much the same squad except for Bale replacing Özil. The key difference was Ancelotti. And let's not pretend that Ancelotti pulled off a miracle here. He was blessed with a blank checkbook and the most expensive squad in all of football. He just knew how to be the perfect mediator. He knew how to put in a balanced system with formations that suited his players (4-3-3/4-4-2 was so simple yet effective for them) and moderate egos and individuals. He didn't revolutionize tactics or make his players look better than they were, he just knew how to regulate them and give them favorable conditions to perform.

That's a case that highlights how important a manager is. Lucho at the helm will keep our mediocrity and even magnify it by the time the business end of the season rolls around. I'm not saying we can experience a 180 degree turnaround the way RM have; our current squad doesn't have the same potential for performance improvement the way theirs does (trophyless->near treble) and we can't exactly find another 'Ancelotti' on the market. I'm just saying that getting a decent-good manager who can moderate the system to get us playing fluid, attacking football will have a pretty big difference in our attempt to actually challenge for titles. And our squad is not completely lost. We do have the GOAT, the most talented forward line in the world, and Iniesta/Busi are definitely not nearly as bad as this system has them playing. Our defense is average but functional and we have two solid GK's. If we play to our strengths, we're a respectable tier 1 side. The only issue now is naming someone who can fill in for Lucho.

 

[Alarcón]

I'm amazed at the timing of this whole past it talk about Iniesta considering yesterday was one of his best performances this season

 

[klc123]

How many times it has to be said that stats mean nothing...

Silva and Isco are winning games for their team (haven't watched much of Gotze this season) something Iniesta hasn't done in a loooong time... The sad part is that he is indeed our best midfielder, which tells the whole story...

See that's always my argument.
But people on here are obsessed with Iniesta not contributing enough, and not stepping up to produce goals/assists.

If you don't think Iniesta wins games for barcelona, then you don't understand football very much.
He's not going to have a messieqsue performance where he scores 4 goals and wins the game single handedly, but find me an attacking midfielder that does these days. He's by far our best midfielder and offers experience. His job is to receive the ball from the defensive orientated players and get it to the offensive orientated players in good positions, and there are few midfielders who do that better.

 

[evilhita666]

See that's always my argument.
But people on here are obsessed with Iniesta not contributing enough, and not stepping up to produce goals/assists.

If you don't think Iniesta wins games for barcelona, then you don't understand football very much.
He's not going to have a messieqsue performance where he scores 4 goals and wins the game single handedly, but find me an attacking midfielder that does these days. He's by far our best midfielder and offers experience. His job is to receive the ball from the defensive orientated players and get it to the offensive orientated players in good positions, and there are few midfielders who do that better.

Nobody is expecting Iniesta to win a game by scoring, I will even give him a free pass for not assisting, but as you correctly said, his job is to help in build up, something he is failing hard at lately; bad passing, getting easily dispossessed, lack of intensity, no creativity, zero urgency, poor positioning... He may show class from time to time, but not nearly enough to win a game for us...

 

[Neymessi]

Iniesta has failed to deliver even the simplest of passes.A prime iniesta would alone light up the midfield of barca would make our midfield word class but he is nothing of what he once was.Rebuilding in the midfield is very very imminent.

 

[Ursegor]

The comparison with Moudrid doesn't sit well with me. That was a team that won the league with 100 points only a couple months prior to their catastropic start to 12/13 where they gave up on the league by December. They did terribly in 12/13, indeed, however that had more to do with Mourinho being Mourinho and clashing with the dressing room for no reason rather than genuine quality problems in the squad. In essence it was a 100 point team that Ancelotti took over and he's added Isco, Bale and Carvajal to it in his first season while only letting go of 60 minute Mesut. Benzema not dependable? He scored 21 goals in 26 starts in 11/12 with 7 assists to boot, a player like that doesn't become "not dependable" the very next season in his mid twenties. Madrid also beat Barca both in La Liga and the CdR even in that failure of a 12/13 season and almost managed the comeback against Dortmund to reach the CL final, their failure over 2 legs was 3-4, not 0-7. If not for those legendary Higuain misses they would have done it. In the CdR Courtois was pulling some heavy shit, I think Real hit the woodwork 3 times.

There are no parallels to be drawn to Barca for me. Barca lost 0-4 and 0-3 to Bayern, 1-3 to Madrid and the same midfield got wrecked by Scolari's Brazil in the Confeds, all in 2013, strongly indicating that an overhaul was already necessary prior to 2013. Yet in 2015 it's still the exact same core. It's either Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta or Busquets-Rakitic-Iniesta (which is even worse than Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta of 2013). And the worst Alves of all time. It's only a dream that another coach will play "more fluid" football with this squad. It's simply not good enough and doesn't have potential.

Part of me actually wants to see Lucho sacked immediately, I said it a couple weeks ago. Just to see people turning on the new coach yet again if Xavi and Iniesta won't start feeding throughball after throughball to the forward line, which they won't. Any changes that don't include midfielders like Verratti and Gündogan replacing Xavi and Iniesta are useless changes.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

Over 1100 pages in here. At least 1000 one of them are serious bullshit.