10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Sumlit]

If looking at the numbers alone, one could argue Messi is having his very best UCL campaign. Lowest numbers of dispossessions with highest amount of dribbles, successful dribbles and success ratio. 8 goals and 3 assists in 8 games. If he keeps this rate and gets into the semifinals at least, he could end up with his overall best UCL campaign.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Is there a site that has detailed stats from before the 2009-10 season?

 

[doublehh03]

If looking at the numbers alone, one could argue Messi is having his very best UCL campaign. Lowest numbers of dispossessions with highest amount of dribbles, successful dribbles and success ratio. 8 goals and 3 assists in 8 games. If he keeps this rate and gets into the semifinals at least, he could end up with his overall best UCL campaign.

Don't have to look at the numbers. Messi has been absolutely mesmerizing in the UCL. Heads and shoulders above the rest in each match.

 

[Lomar1o]

BBZ8800

you are forgetting a key moment. 3 or 4 players were NOT man marking Messi back in the day, now he is the most heavily marked player in every game, and he still manages to do enough and more than enough to be the best player in the world. also he doesn't attempt to do it all by himself not only because he knows that he lacks the skills from his youth, like speed, agility, explosiveness, etc., but also because he knows that the team relies on him. back in the day when he was still young he could care less and would be a daredevil, now he puts the team more ahead of him than EVER. he sacrifices his individuality. if Messi had more stamina he would resemble the old (younger) Messi so much more. anyways i hope to see a monster Leo tonight

 

[oggmar]

I love Messi.

 

[BBZ8800]

BBZ8800

you are forgetting a key moment. 3 or 4 players were NOT man marking Messi back in the day, now he is the most heavily marked player in every game, and he still manages to do enough and more than enough to be the best player in the world. also he doesn't attempt to do it all by himself not only because he knows that he lacks the skills from his youth, like speed, agility, explosiveness, etc., but also because he knows that the team relies on him. back in the day when he was still young he could care less and would be a daredevil, now he puts the team more ahead of him than EVER. he sacrifices his individuality. if Messi had more stamina he would resemble the old (younger) Messi so much more. anyways i hope to see a monster Leo tonight

Ok. But this debate started because some users say that Messi is a different player today, and some say that he is more or less the same and that he can do everything like 5-10 years ago.

This is my view, how I would describe Messi aged 18-20 and Messi aged 28:
-- young Messi:
-- Pace 99
-- Acceleration 99
-- speed of turns/dribbles 99
-- routine 10
-- work for the team 50
-- decisions 50
-- passing 60

Messi aged 28:
-- Pace 85
-- Acceleration 85
-- speed of turns and dribbles 80
-- routine 99
-- work for the team 99
-- decisions 95
-- passing 99

So, he obviously declined in physical skills, like ANY person does with age.
But he improved in other areas of his play.

Also, that doesn't mean that he is not a Goat anymore.
He is just a different player/Goat today.

Also, I don't think that he doesn't want to dribble that way today (ok, partly he doesn't want it because he is older and smarter), I think that he can't dribble that much anymore because it requires a lot of energy.
Today, we sometimes see glimpses of that young, crazy Messi, probably 0-1-2-3 times per match.
But in the past, he was "running like crazy" in every duel.

This post is just my view about debate whether Messi is physically the same player as 8 or 10 years ago.
I think that he isn't and I don't think that he can do all those things anymore.

Young Messi, aged 18, in 2005', he is running like crazy in EVERY action.
Also, look at his "little moves and turns". He needed, let's say, 0,3 seconds for a dribble and 180* turn in the past, while today he is not that lightweight and he needs 0,6 seconds for the same thing (just an example, these are not the real numbers...)

 

[linetty]

You don't fucking need stats to say Messi plays differently now. Uninspiring debate.

 

[BBZ8800]

You don't fucking need stats to say Messi plays differently now. Uninspiring debate.

Some users say that Messi can do all things as back then.
Nobody says that he is a bad player now.
He is just older and plays more with his brains and routine.

 

[linetty]

Some users say that Messi can do all things as back then.
Nobody says that he is a bad player now.
He is just older and plays more with his brains and routine.

I'm not denying anything you said. But it's very evident and you don't need numbers for this. Bringing up stats is asking for war.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Some users say that Messi can do all things as back then.
Nobody says that he is a bad player now.
He is just older and plays more with his brains and routine.

Yeah but also people view things from some years ago with to much nostalgia and only remember the good times. For example Messi always had great acceleration but never the ability to keep that top speed for a long time beause of his short explosive muscles.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

His fiscal evasion stats were better back then too

although the opposition is leaving him a lot less space in that respect these days

 

[BibB]

He's not 28, he's 27.

 

[Jombi]

Why would a 25-27 year old decline in physical abilities? Is this what we see in other more physical sports? I thought the best physical athletes were not 20 year olds? Are the fastest people in the world 20 years old?

 

[BBZ8800]

he's done , never will be the same

You are just trolling, but this is why I repeated a few times that my reply was just about whether Messi is the same guy in terms of agility, pace, acceleration, turns as the 18-20-22 year old Messi.

My personal opinion is that he is not as fast as then, the same as probably 90% of other players of similar "style" (young Shevchenko, young Brasilian Ronaldo, young Ronaldinho, young Michael Owen, his case not only because of injuries etc). Robben is probably one of a few players who lost the smallest amount of their usual pace.

So, to avoid troll post and going into extremes:
1. is Messi as fast as 8-10 years ago? =imo, no
2. is Messi still a Goat? =Yes
3. Has Messi improved a lot in other areas? =yes
4. Which Messi is better? =hard to tell, each one of them had some pros and cons
5. Will he ever be the same? =probably not as FAST as 18 year old teenager, but again, he improved in other areas to compensate that
6. Before someone says: should we sell him? =no. Nobody said something like that

The question was whether Messi is still the same guy (in terms of pace and acceleration) as 18 year old Messi.

 

[Gohan]

Dont forget that he looked a lot better when he was young because back then the teams won alot and we had prime Xavi and prime Iniesta. Messi's performances are still on another level it just doesn't seem that way.