10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Morten]

When Messi has a good match now a days, he's better than ever before in my opinion. He has just added so much to his game that the amount of influence he has on a match is... well, unmatched.

He isn't as quick as 7 years ago, but his passing, reading of the game, change of pace and many other things has improved so much to weigh up for it. Which is great because it means he can have a very long career while still being as influential as he is now. If he decided to become a CM tomorrow, he'd be the best in the world at that position as well.

The one thing that tells against him being cm, his workrate, and perhaps positioning, i dont know about that.

 

[Morten]

I dont think Messi has declined, he is just a bit different than he was when he was younger. Not as quick, and not quite as good at dribbling(i think he loses the ball more). But his intelligence, effectiveness and passing has increased, in short, he is a better playmaker than before.

 

[doublehh03]

When Messi has a good match now a days, he's better than ever before in my opinion. He has just added so much to his game that the amount of influence he can have on a match is, well, pretty much compltely unmatched.

He isn't as quick as he was 7 years ago, but his passing, reading of the game, change of pace and many other things has improved so much to weigh up for it. Which is great because it means he can have a very long career while still being as influential as he is now. If he decided to become a CM tomorrow, he'd be the best in the world in this position as well.

I don't think that he isn't as quick or "wild" as before. His role and responsibilities are more now than before. In games where we struggle, we would rotate to many different positions, including very deep in the mid-field.

Before, he had a prime Xavi/Iniesta to man that area so all he can do was focused on attacking.

I think if you bring back a prime Xavi or Iniesta to man the midfield, and tell Leo to just do what he does, you see him going crazy. Same thing with ARG where he has to do so much. He has to learn how to pace himself.

 

[doublehh03]

I dont think Messi has declined, he is just a bit different than he was when he was younger. Not as quick, and not quite as good at dribbling(i think he loses the ball more). But his intelligence, effectiveness and passing has increased, in short, he is a better playmaker than before.

Did you see his mesermizing dribbling a few weeks ago? He put everyone in awe with his dribbling alone.

His right foot is a little bit injured. There are news reports he's trying to avoid using that foot during the pitch. That affects his dribbling tremendously. You can't dribble with one foot.

 

[Morten]

Did you see his mesermizing dribbling a few weeks ago? He put everyone in awe with his dribbling alone.

His right foot is a little bit injured. There are news reports he's trying to avoid using that foot during the pitch. That affects his dribbling tremendously. You can't dribble with one foot.

Yeah, he is still amazing at dribbling, obviously, but he dont do those crazy dribble raids like he did when he was younger.

 

[doublehh03]

Yeah, he is still amazing at dribbling, obviously, but he dont do those crazy dribble raids like he did when he was younger.

Are you even serious? He made Atletico's defense looks like elementary school kids and they have arguably the best defense in the world.

 

[Morten]

Are you even serious? He made Atletico's defense looks like elementary school kids and they have arguably the best defense in the world.

Yeah, i am. I think he was a better dribbler when he was younger, not by much, but a bit, mostly because i feel he was quicker when he was younger. I dont say he isnt quick now, or that he cant leave anyone for dead, he still does it often. And the Atletico match....Simeone tried to play an open game, big mistake from him. But as i said, Messi is a better playmaker than when he was younger, quite noticably too.

 

[Sumlit]

I guess it is not only about pace.

Current Messi SEEMS to be less effective on his dribbles, even the low speed ones.

He SEEMS to lose more balls than in the past, even when playing good.

Maybe the opponents finally learned something about him, after so many years of pure humiliation.

Maybe the age is doing its part.

Or maybe both, I don't know.

But the incredible thing is: he still is the best player of the world, which says a lot about how supernatural old Messi was.

There's not really a huge difference in his dribbling success/failure rate now as opposed to the past.

Per whoscored:

La Liga - per game
14/15 season - 3.8 unsuccessful - 4.7 successful - 8.5 total - 1.24 ratio
13/14 season - 3.3 unsuccessful - 4.6 successful - 7.9 total - 1.39 ratio
12/13 season - 2.3 unsuccessful - 3.8 successful - 6.1 total - 1.65 ratio
11/12 season - 3.7 unsuccessful - 4.8 successful - 8.5 total - 1.30 ratio
10/11 season - 3.9 unsuccessful - 5.6 successful - 9.6 total - 1.43 ratio
09/10 season - 2.7 unsuccessful - 4.1 successful - 6.8 total - 1.52 ratio

UCL - per game
14/15 season - 3.9 unsuccessful - 7.1 successful - 11 total - 1.82 ratio
13/14 season - 3.9 unsuccessful - 3.6 successful - 7.4 total - 0.92 ratio
12/13 season - 2.4 unsuccessful - 1.9 successful - 4.3 total - 0.79 ratio
11/12 season - 3.8 unsuccessful - 4.0 successful - 7.8 total - 1.05 ratio
10/11 season - 3.4 unsuccessful - 6.1 successful - 9.5 total - 1.80 ratio
09/10 season - 4.1 unsuccessful - 5.7 successful - 9.8 total - 1.39 ratio

So you see, he's not really less or more successful now than before in La Liga. His ratio is at his lowest, but is not a huge difference and he is attempting the 2nd more amount of dribbles in his career this year, and from an overall deeper position plenty of times. Also, his ratio is climbing as it was worse at the start of the year. Conceivably, he'll get it on par with other seasons by the end if he can get his foot sorted.

In the UCL, he is destroying people left and right. 11 dribbles per game with 7.1 of those being successful, rate of 1.82 successful per unsuccessful. His dribbling numbers vs City and PSG in 4 games are crazy.

Edited for a mistake in calculation.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Maybe he is slightly less explosive now (though the difference is small) but most of all he conserves his energy more to be more effectif and to not waste his energy (probably also a little bit to avoid injuries).

 

[Icarium]

Messi was more explosive when he was younger but i feel like his dribbling has slightly improved over the years. He added more variety to it now. He doesn't need to constantly shift his gears to dribble now, he does it more easily. It is that explosiveness that caused us so many problems in 2013 (injuries and stuff like that).. but now i feel like he can last an entire season without much rest.

If he decides to play selfishly and try to dribble most of the match you will see his dribbling is still as good as it once was. But i am glad that he is more effective and conservative in his style and looks to create more chances than he ever did in his career. I seriously thought he would burn out by feb because of the world cup and tough schedule he is having. I hope messi continues develop his play making skills rather than his solo runs so that we can see more of messi for much longer.

 

[doublehh03]

Yeah, i am. I think he was a better dribbler when he was younger, not by much, but a bit, mostly because i feel he was quicker when he was younger. I dont say he isnt quick now, or that he cant leave anyone for dead, he still does it often. And the Atletico match....Simeone tried to play an open game, big mistake from him. But as i said, Messi is a better playmaker than when he was younger, quite noticably too.

Quicker doesn't mean better with dribbling. You're mistaking that with pace/workrate.

 

[mark1nhu]

what?????

Messi is better than ever now.. look at his dribbling against city and atletico! did you forget these games already?

just because he lost many balls against almeria after an injury means nothing..

I am not talking about last game.

I am talking about a overall IMPRESSION of his dribble and possession skills. It is what SEEMS to me when I watch his extended highlights of the entire season.

I could be totally wrong, though.

 

[mark1nhu]

There's not really a huge difference in his dribbling success/failure rate now as opposed to the past.

Per whoscored:

La Liga - per game
14/15 season - 3.8 unsuccessful - 4.7 successful - 8.5 total - 1.24 ratio
13/14 season - 3.3 unsuccessful - 4.6 successful - 7.9 total - 1.39 ratio
12/13 season - 2.3 unsuccessful - 3.8 successful - 6.1 total - 1.65 ratio
11/12 season - 3.7 unsuccessful - 4.8 successful - 8.5 total - 1.30 ratio
10/11 season - 3.9 unsuccessful - 5.6 successful - 9.6 total - 1.43 ratio
09/10 season - 2.7 unsuccessful - 4.1 successful - 6.8 total - 1.52 ratio

UCL - per game
14/15 season - 3.9 unsuccessful - 7.1 successful - 11 total - 1.82 ratio
13/14 season - 3.9 unsuccessful - 3.6 successful - 7.4 total - 0.92 ratio
12/13 season - 2.4 unsuccessful - 1.9 successful - 4.3 total - 0.79 ratio
11/12 season - 3.8 unsuccessful - 4.0 successful - 7.8 total - 1.05 ratio
10/11 season - 3.4 unsuccessful - 6.1 successful - 9.5 total - 1.80 ratio
09/10 season - 4.1 unsuccessful - 5.7 successful - 9.8 total - 1.39 ratio

So you see, he's not really less or more successful now than before in La Liga. His ratio is at his lowest, but is not a huge difference and he is attempting the 2nd more amount of dribbles in his career this year, and from an overall deeper position plenty of times. Also, his ratio is climbing as it was worse at the start of the year. Conceivably, he'll get it on par with other seasons by the end if he can get his foot sorted.

In the UCL, he is destroying people left and right. 11 dribbles per game with 7.1 of those being successful, rate of 1.82 successful per unsuccessful. His dribbling numbers vs City and PSG in 4 games are crazy.

Edited for a mistake in calculation.

Thank you for bring the numbers. Let me add some more:

La Liga

14/15 - 1.24 ratio (Δ -10%)
13/14 - 1.39 ratio (Δ -15%)
12/13 - 1.65 ratio (Δ +26%)
11/12 - 1.30 ratio (Δ -9%)
10/11 - 1.43 ratio (Δ -5%)
09/10 - 1.52 ratio

UCL

14/15 - 1.82 ratio (Δ +97%)
13/14 - 0.92 ratio (Δ -26%)
12/13 - 0.79 ratio (Δ -24%)
11/12 - 1.05 ratio (Δ -41%)
10/11 - 1.80 ratio (Δ +29%)
09/10 - 1.39 ratio

 

[Sumlit]

It's good to point out again that his La Liga ratio is climbing. It started lower at the beginning of the season and has progressively increased as he gained form. If his right foot doesn't continue to bother him for much longer, we can safely expect the ratio to continue to improve and reach similar levels to the 11/12 season. That is the trend.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

I'll always rate this messi higher than the younger one. Pace and acceleration are physical attributes; becoming an all-time great playmaker is pure skill.