10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[ZenI]

He did suck yesterday, honestly he did. But he is also used to us having the ball in the midfield, Iniesta/Cesc/Xavi controlling the ball high up the pitch with ease - yesterday there was no control in the midfield, no support by Alves - what could he do? But I'm worried, he doesn't look motivated. He does look slow and lazy. He doesn't accelerate pass defenders anymore. He doesn't dribble in beast mode. He doesn't finish his chances like he used to. Etc etc etc. People saying he is saving himself for the WC? WTF? The WC is in a couple of months from now, do you really mean he has a license to suck until after the WC?

 

[serghei]

You're the one who appears to not know what he/she is talking about. False 9 means a CF without a fix position. He can occupy the CF spot, but he can also drift deeper and distribute game. To say that a false 9 "isn't served" is beyond ridiculous. Despite the name of the position, he still has the duties of a central forward. He still receives service and converts it to goals. The fact that he also gets involved in the build up and also provides service, does not mean he cannot receive it.

Your whole comment is nonsensical.

I suggest you check some videos with Messi's goals to see where his actions usually started - right from the AM position. Messi played like an AM most of the time, always did, never stood around, just waiting for the ball to get to him. That's the point I'm making and it's true. He has stopped being a false 9 these days. Messi is either a normal number 9, with a fixed position, or an attacking midfielder (most of the time), also with a fixed position. HE WAS NOT mobile against Sociedad, because he just didn't bother to run.

Maybe you should watch Barca - Real 5-0. One of Messi's best matches in the blaugrana shirt, although he didn't score. That's false 9 stuff, and, as I said, wasn't waiting to be served, but the one giving the service most of the time. So, in my opinion the whole "Messi wasn't served by our midfield and that's why he didn't deliver" is rubbish. He was never the solution precisely because he was part of the problem.

 

[poldep]

Messi is imo nearly always the best player on the pitch. But he can't do it all by himself.

 

[Kerrybai]

Still need to include CL - 'Alexis performing poorly' is irrelevant.

The wide players show better stats without Messi in La Liga and CL no matter how much you try to offer them.

The difference is marginal.

Can't believe some people are saying Messi is past it. Yesterday the midfield failed so we lost the game. As usual people blame Messi. He wasn't great but he wasn't the reason we lost. The game was lost in the middle.

And no the team is not built around him. The attack is built around him but football is a team sport consisting of 11 players. Barcelona are a well oiled machine and when a cog in that machine fails the whole machine breaks down.


Btw great goal from him.

 

[serghei]

The difference is marginal.

Can't believe some people are saying Messi is past it. Yesterday the midfield failed so we lost the game. As usual people blame Messi. He wasn't great but he wasn't the reason we lost. The game was lost in the middle.

And no the team is not built around him. The attack is built around him but football is a team sport consisting of 11 players. Barcelona are a well oiled machine and when a cog in that machine fails the whole machine breaks down.


Btw great goal from him.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. We lost because the midfield failed. As if the attack went well and the defense was solid. We lost because everyone was poor, including Messi. He was prob. still our best on the night, but being a 5-6 when everyone else is a 4 or worse is no accomplishment. And nice way to overlook the fact that Messi played in the midfield for a big portion of that game.

 

[Kerrybai]

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. We lost because the midfield failed. As if the attack went well and the defense was solid. We lost because everyone was poor, including Messi. He was prob. still our best on the night, but being a 5-6 when everyone else is a 4 or worse is no accomplishment. And nice way to overlook the fact that Messi played in the midfield for a big portion of that game.

Yes he did like he always does when he has to drop deep to retrieve the ball.

Tata got it wrong. We shouldn't crucify individual players when we got our tactics wrong. It's a knee jerk reaction.

 

[hulinat]

 

[Luftstalag14]

Repeating things doesn't make them truer. How is it 'unlikely'? Are you basing that on evidence, an analysis of his game? Is there a detectable trend the development of which you can predict? Other than "he has lost his magic" (how is magic defined?)? If you weren't kneejerking, you would argue the same thing regardless of his performances and not always directly after a bad game. Or then you'd write 'this performance again has shown my idea that...' and not something that suggests the idea just entered your head.

Had Ronaldo scored the goal Messi scored, you'd say, "You just have to give him credit for how consistently he scores. He does deserve the ballon d'or".

Less gloom, more perspective please.

When did I say Messi has lost his magic? I was simply stating my opinion that Messi's game has changed quite a bit in that you don't see him going full throttle for 90 minutes again.

And to accuse me of saying the same things after each bad game is just ridiculous. When was the last time I said anything? When scores of people blamed Messi for our defeat against Valencia at home, I was one of those who defended him, saying he shouldn't shoulder the blame and that he tried and had a decent game. Please don't jump out every time with accusations when you see something that is not to your liking.

As to Ronaldo, he was very consistent last year in terms of scoring, but I have also often stated that other than scoring those goals, some of which were penalties and tap-ins, he was pretty crappy, the same trend that we are seeing with Real Madrid this season, that they managed to win games even though they played badly. If I were a Real Madrid and Ronaldo fan, I would have expressed my concerns with how he had been subpar and invisible in many games, how his impact on the team play had been minimal, other than scoring those goals etc.

 

[Sumlit]

I suggest you check some videos with Messi's goals to see where his actions usually started - right from the AM position. Messi played like an AM most of the time, always did, never stood around, just waiting for the ball to get to him. That's the point I'm making and it's true. He has stopped being a false 9 these days. Messi is either a normal number 9, with a fixed position, or an attacking midfielder (most of the time), also with a fixed position. HE WAS NOT mobile against Sociedad, because he just didn't bother to run.

Maybe you should watch Barca - Real 5-0. One of Messi's best matches in the blaugrana shirt, although he didn't score. That's false 9 stuff, and, as I said, wasn't waiting to be served, but the one giving the service most of the time. So, in my opinion the whole "Messi wasn't served by our midfield and that's why he didn't deliver" is rubbish. He was never the solution precisely because he was part of the problem.

Again, I'll repeat, false 9 is a CF without a fixed position. He can occupy the CF spot, but he can also drift deeper into midfield and help build and distribute. Just like he can come deep and start plays, so also he sits up and receives service. When the midfield is unable to produce for him, then his only option is to go deep and serve. The midfield conditions his play, not the other way around.

He hasn't stopped being a false 9 because he wants to, he has been forced to come deeper because the midfield has lost its dominance. So he is either surrounded by defenders and not receiving service, or he is dropping deeper to aid the sluggish midfield and help create. Again, midfield conditions his play, not the other way around. You want me to go back and watch video when Barca were at their apex, which is very irrelevant. The team has not consistently dominated midfield like they used to, hence Messi cannot perform the same role with equal level of efficiency.

The fact that midfield was disastrous vs Real Sociedad is a given. This is an undisputed fact. Yet you want to say it was because Messi wasn't performing his role. This, is what is rubbish. He was neither provided service, nor did he have a controlling midfield to work with when he dropped deeper.

And btw, I never said Messi played well. I've already said everyone was pretty bad. My only complaint was with people placing the majority of the blame on Messi and his "lack of involvement killing the team" when in fact, the few positives in that game came from his boots.

 

[JamDav1982]

The midfield were poor and did not dominate the game but Messi takes part of the blame for that as false nine his role is to help dominate the midfield.

In no way did it look last night that he was doing his job an everyone else let him down. He looked as poor as every other player and his goal doesnt change that.

Messi moving more will make it easier for the other players as well.

 

[Sumlit]

Other players doing more and having more impact on the game will make it easier for Messi to move and do his job. See how that works both ways?

The other players are supposed to be world class too, how about demanding the same high standard of them. The team cannot always depend on Messi to will his team to victory when everyone else is playing a subpar game.

He had the only positive impact on the game, how about asking the rest to bring something, anything, before you ask more from Messi.

 

[serghei]

The midfield were poor and did not dominate the game but Messi takes part of the blame for that as false nine his role is to help dominate the midfield.

In no way did it look last night that he was doing his job an everyone else let him down. He looked as poor as every other player and his goal doesnt change that.

Messi moving more will make it easier for the other players as well.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Alarcón]

Other players doing more and having more impact on the game will make it easier for Messi to move and do his job. See how that works both ways?

Yes it works both ways and that's why you can't relieve Messi of blame. It is a fact that Leo has very little off-the-ball movement and for a playing style that is so reliant and even dependent on good and intelligent movement, that's a pretty huge hinderance, no matter how brilliant Leo's individual class is to make up for it.

 

[Henry_IB]

Oh look, we're back to Messi sucks, acceleration is gone, he has no motivation etc. Now we'll have to wait until the next time he scores a brace or better for the thread to be filled with "GOAT" and "best player ever" by the same people who said he was shit.

 

[CatalinR10]

Oh look, we're back to Messi sucks, acceleration is gone, he has no motivation etc. Now we'll have to wait until the next time he scores a brace or better for the thread to be filled with "GOAT" and "best player ever" by the same people who said he was shit.

I've already called it 2 weeks ago