10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Luftstalag14]

Drop him. He's not playing for the team and his team mates can see that. Why should they put their bodies on the line when Messi can't be bothered? Sure he pops up and scores all the time, but this is more about respect. If he doesn't respect the club and his team mates and just wants to preserve himself for the world cup, let him do that from the bench.

Where the heck do you guys all come from, all of sudden?

Drop him? What is he doing differently today that he didn't do last year, and the year before? By your logic, we should have dropped Messi in 2012.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I don't want him to leave, and I never said that. However, if he is keeping himself for the world cup, then fine, let's let him do that. He can sit on the bench and justcome on for cameo roles. It is a win-win situation.

Gosh, I wasted so much time yesterday typing the same stuff (to be found in the troll thread now). Long story short, Messi is not underperforming intentionally to preserve for the WC. His behavior/effort/workrate is essentially the same as it was in the last couple of years!

 

[serghei]

What people seem to forget is Messi's injuries started over a year ago. He was then rushed back ( PSG , Bilbao ) as we needed him to save us. As a result Messi damaged himself again and struggled to overcome his injuries.

Now he has come back at a slower pace to avoid the injury reoccurring. Messi isn't a normal player. He has a history of growth problems and as a result his muscles may be prone to injury. Perhaps running 12km a game isn't possible for him due to his history. And perhaps he's not pushing 100% due to the world cup... But who cares? Liverpool fans are aware that Suarez is conversing himself and they don't call for him to be benched. Someone mentioned that popping up with a goal a game isn't enough if he's not giving 100%... Most teams would kill for a player he scores a goal a game at walking pace.

People expect Messi to show some leadership qualities when things go bad for us. And he just doesn't show that. Instead, he seems as lethargic as the other players, even more so sometimes. Maybe he's not a genuine leader in terms of personality, I don't know. But what I do know is that his attitude must change. Lackluster is the best word to describe Messi at this point. You say it's the body. I sense it's the mind. He needs to know he's not doing well, and people who think he's fine, still the eight wonder of the world and all that aren't helping one bit. Praising somebody all the time can be just as damaging as bringing him down. Moderation is key, and we all - the fans, the club, the media - have put Messi on a throne. Guess what? "Emperors" don't work as hard as soldiers. They think - maybe even unconciously - that they don't need to work as hard to achieve greatness. They're wrong. And they're gonna be proven wrong at some point.

 

[Kerrybai]

^ if his work rate is so bad then why is he averaging 5 - 6 shots per game like he always has? He may not press as hard as Alexis etc but he still provules more than those players. His output is huge, goals , assists, chance creation etc.

His off the ball work is poor, but he makes up for it tenfold.

 

[Luftstalag14]

People expect Messi to show some leadership qualities when things go bad for us. And he just doesn't show that. Instead, he seems as lethargic as the other players, even more so sometimes. Maybe he's not a genuine leader in terms of personality, I don't know. But what I do know is that his attitude must change. Lackluster is the best word to describe Messi at this point. You say it's the body. I sense it's the mind. He needs to know he's not doing well, and people who think he's fine, still the eight wonder of the world and all that aren't helping one bit. Praising somebody all the time can be just as damaging as bringing him down. Moderation is key, and we all - the fans, the club, the media - have put Messi on a throne. Guess what? "Emperors" don't work as hard as soldiers. They think - maybe even unconciously - that they don't need to work as hard to achieve greatness. They're wrong. And they're gonna be proven wrong at some point.

For the most part I agree. Messi can certainly be better than this, which is by no means bad. He has set the bar and expectations very high.

Messi is not a leader with a strong, super-imposing personality, we need to accept this.

 

[serghei]

^ if his work rate is so bad then why is he averaging 5 - 6 shots per game like he always has? He may not press as hard as Alexis etc but he still provules more than those players. His output is huge, goals , assists, chance creation etc.

His off the ball work is poor, but he makes up for it tenfold.

1 goal and 0 assists in the last 180 minutes played away from home in the league means a huge output to you? Well, to me, it doesn't. He was average against Sociedad and poor against Valladolid.

 

[Kerrybai]

1 goal and 0 assists in the last 180 minutes played away from home in the league means a huge output to you? Well, to me, it doesn't. He was average against Sociedad and poor against Valladolid.

Have you ever heard of sample size?

 

[footyfan]

You can't complain about Messi getting a disproportionate amount of blame during losses if at the same time he gets a disproportionate amount of praise during wins.

 

[Kerrybai]

For the most part I agree. Messi can certainly be better than this, which is by no means bad. He has set the bar and expectations very high.

Messi is not a leader with a strong, super-imposing personality, we need to accept this.

Hes not the captain, in fact I think Puyol, Valdes, Xavi and Iniesta are ahead of him. Besides of he shouts at players like Puyol everyone will whine.

 

[spark]

People expect Messi to show some leadership qualities when things go bad for us. And he just doesn't show that. Instead, he seems as lethargic as the other players, even more so sometimes. Maybe he's not a genuine leader in terms of personality, I don't know. But what I do know is that his attitude must change. Lackluster is the best word to describe Messi at this point. You say it's the body. I sense it's the mind. He needs to know he's not doing well, and people who think he's fine, still the eight wonder of the world and all that aren't helping one bit. Praising somebody all the time can be just as damaging as bringing him down. Moderation is key, and we all - the fans, the club, the media - have put Messi on a throne. Guess what? "Emperors" don't work as hard as soldiers. They think - maybe even unconciously - that they don't need to work as hard to achieve greatness. They're wrong. And they're gonna be proven wrong at some point.

Leadership is nebulous. Some of you seem to think that there isn't more than one way or style to lead. Messi has always been there when things go bad so either its poor memory or deliberate dishonesty to say otherwise. Similar things were said after Milan beat us 2-0, then those people had to be quiet for some time after the 4-0 come back, then the two successive times he willed the team to victory while injured against PSG and Athletic Bilbao. Good to see the discussion has raised its ugly head exactly one year later though. Kudos for consistency.

 

[footyfan]

Hes not the captain, in fact I think Puyol, Valdes, Xavi and Iniesta are ahead of him. Besides of he shouts at players like Puyol everyone will whine.

I agree. Remember the Villa incident and how much shit he got?

 

[Kerrybai]

Exactly, it started a whole conspiracy theory. If Puyol does that however he's a hero. The fickleness of football fans is comedy gold.

 

[Flavia]

1 goal and 0 assists in the last 180 minutes played away from home in the league means a huge output to you? Well, to me, it doesn't. He was average against Sociedad and poor against Valladolid.

I would agree if the team had played well in those matches. Collective failure can't be pinned only on him. And against Valladolid he tried. From that game just Pique, Pedro, Masch and Messi were trying.

 

[Bu3aLi]

One crazy goal in the coming match will turn around the chatter around here.

 

[RandomGuy80]

You can't complain about Messi getting a disproportionate amount of blame during losses if at the same time he gets a disproportionate amount of praise during wins.

100% agreement. We expect very much from him, but only because we know what he is capable of. And searching excuses everytime a player plays bad wont help as well. A player like Messi who won everything besides WC and praised all the time even if he does bad can also be unmotivated and can also become lazy if he sees that no matter what he does he will at the end of the day always be the untouchable hero. He is just a human being like all of us and if i were Messi i would also play relaxed and walk around sometimes when im not in the mood , cause i would not have to proove anyone a thing..and that can become a big problem.