10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Kerrybai]

For example, Messi ran almost 9.5 km in the 2011 CL final against United. He ran under 7 with Atletico. That difference is huge -- almost 30% less in the game vs Atletico Madrid.

That team used to press like crazy, Messi and co don't press like that anymore. Players like Sanchez are an exception. Also Messi used to get the ball more then, where as now we play down the wings over and over again. Messi is part of the problem but the scapegoat treating is entirely unfair. A competent coach should change everything.

Remember Pep left because he couldn't motivate the players, it seems Tata is having both motivational and tactical nightmares which is hardly surprising when the board hasn't backed him.

 

[serghei]

That team used to press like crazy, Messi and co don't press like that anymore. Players like Sanchez are an exception. Also Messi used to get the ball more then, where as now we play down the wings over and over again. Messi is part of the problem but the scapegoat treating is entirely unfair. A competent coach should change everything.

Remember Pep left because he couldn't motivate the players, it seems Tata is having both motivational and tactical nightmares which is hardly surprising when the board hasn't backed him.

I agree, but the ones trying to absolve Messi of any blame are just as wrong as the ones putting all the blame on him. Many players have been subpar this season, including Messi. We should settle at that.

 

[Kerrybai]

I agree, but the ones trying to absolve Messi of any blame are just as wrong as the ones putting all the blame on him. Many players have been subpar this season, including Messi. We should settle at that.

I can agree with that. The task facing our new boss will be a huge one, a job certainly don't envy.

 

[Alik]

I agree, but the ones trying to absolve Messi of any blame are just as wrong as the ones putting all the blame on him. Many players have been subpar this season, including Messi. We should settle at that.

I can agree with that. The task facing our new boss will be a huge one, a job certainly don't envy.

Yay!

 

[Ghostmaster]

I can agree with that. The task facing our new boss will be a huge one, a job certainly don't envy.

Yep, it could be that he will need time to adjust in the first half of the season (in the contrast to Tata) and it could be ugly.

 

[Vapor]

I also feel like we will see the best Messi at the WC and next season. Regardless of what anyone says, the world cup has to be in the back of his mind. I still feel that he has been trying hard and doing all that he can to win games for us, but he hasn't be going above-and-beyond super saiyan mode 110% like he used to in previous years. That, to me, is probably due to fear of re-injury and acknowledgment of the impending World Cup. He plays smarter and more calculated... but he still tries, how anyone can doubt that or call him "lazy" or "apathetic" is beyond me.

At the same time... he probably sees that running like a headless chicken is worthless anyway. DonAK nailed it. What's the use of "running more" if he's getting the ball in useless and pointless positions? He walks because he knows it is up to his team to advance the ball up to a certain point, where he then gets in positions to make runs or get the ball and try to make plays. Messi is the definition of efficiency in my mind... he always has been. He doesn't run around when he doesn't need too... he conserves his energy for the right moments, and then explodes in bursts to beat past defenders and make plays. His calculated energy expenditure does not = lazy IMO.

Basically, I feel like Messi hasn't been 100%, but he also hasn't had the environment where it's even been possible to reach that level. When you factor in the fact that he is attacking with essentially incompetent strikers (Pedro and Alexis, therefore always making him ultra-marked), the club has an overall bad vibe and atmosphere about it, none of the players are on the same page tactically, and we go through Messi and the middle far less now... and we never play triangles or 1-2's.... how can anyone expect Messi to play at the godlike level he was at before at this time?

I feel the World Cup will give him some fresh air and re-invigorate his hunger, and he'll dig deep and try to bring out his best. A new coach, a fortified squad and some new motivation and sound tactics and I feel that Messi could EASILY return to godlike levels by the end of next season.

The talent is there just as much as ever, it's just the team is dysfunctional, and it's unreasonable to expect him to be able to perform to his pre-injury godmode level at all times and bail us out. I don't think he deserves as much criticism as he's been getting... even in his less than 100% state he is still our best player by a margin and our most dangerous goal threat.

 

[e28makaveli]

I also feel like we will see the best Messi at the WC and next season. Regardless of what anyone says, the world cup has to be in the back of his mind. I still feel that he has been trying hard and doing all that he can to win games for us, but he hasn't be going above-and-beyond super saiyan mode 110% like he used to in previous years. That, to me, is probably due to fear of re-injury and acknowledgment of the impending World Cup. He plays smarter and more calculated... but he still tries, how anyone can doubt that or call him "lazy" or "apathetic" is beyond me.

At the same time... he probably sees that running like a headless chicken is worthless anyway. DonAK nailed it. What's the use of "running more" if he's getting the ball in useless and pointless positions? He walks because he knows it is up to his team to advance the ball up to a certain point, where he then gets in positions to make runs or get the ball and try to make plays. Messi is the definition of efficiency in my mind... he always has been. He doesn't run around when he doesn't need too... he conserves his energy for the right moments, and then explodes in bursts to beat past defenders and make plays. His calculated energy expenditure does not = lazy IMO.

Basically, I feel like Messi hasn't been 100%, but he also hasn't had the environment where it's even been possible to reach that level. When you factor in the fact that he is attacking with essentially incompetent strikers (Pedro and Alexis, therefore always making him ultra-marked), the club has an overall bad vibe and atmosphere about it, none of the players are on the same page tactically, and we go through Messi and the middle far less now... and we never play triangles or 1-2's.... how can anyone expect Messi to play at the godlike level he was at before at this time?

I feel the World Cup will give him some fresh air and re-invigorate his hunger, and he'll dig deep and try to bring out his best. A new coach, a fortified squad and some new motivation and sound tactics and I feel that Messi could EASILY return to godlike levels by the end of next season.

The talent is there just as much as ever, it's just the team is dysfunctional, and it's unreasonable to expect him to be able to perform to his pre-injury godmode level at all times and bail us out. I don't think he deserves as much criticism as he's been getting... even in his less than 100% state he is still our best player by a margin and our most dangerous goal threat.

Should not be doing this at the office, but I cannot resist:



Reasoned, clear and concise. Anyone disagree with what has been written here should provide a better argument.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I'm holding him accountable for what I wish for him. If he is to be called the best player in the world and ever then he needs to do that. If he cannot do that anymore, that doesn't make him crap, but it means that he is not the best. I've also seen Messi missing chances that he would have finished before, and being less sharp, and that sort of thing has nothing to do with team performance.

Sure he is performing decently. The world is full of decent players.



I never said he is to blame for the teams performance. You are putting words in my mouth.

I said he is off form. If you think he is on form, then we simply disagree.

This. It pains many of us to admit it, but Messi is simply not the same player that we fell in love with many years ago. I used to be awed by his magic game in and game out back in those days, nowadays he is so predictable, you know most of the time he is going to start a quick dribble, trying to get past one or two players and then taking the shot in the center of the goal with his left foot. Opposing players kind of had him figured out. Throwing bodies in the middle will block either him or his shots, or both. Magic happens few and far between these days. And his touches and his finishing in general have been poor for quite a long time.

We don't know why. Whether it is due to health issues (both physical and psychological), or him passing his peak already, or him saving for the WC, nobody knows for sure. Bad tatics and teammates playing poorly certainly had an effect on his game; but it eats me alive to say this, individually, Messi is not the same player he was before. It eats me alive to see Ronaldo, being two years older, is stealing Messi's thunder.

If Messi never recovers from this bad form he is in, if he deteriorates further from now on, can he be billed the best player in the world presently, let alone best player of all time?

 

[Neymessi]

Have people ever wondered that the reason for him not moving much might be tactical?

But noooooooooooooooooooooo

Lazy messi. Bad messi. Run like a freaking wild horse. That will make people happy. They only want to see you run. Screw the fact that you running wont change much as you wont get the ball in good positions anyway, but atleast he wont be lazy eh?

I don't want him to run like a wild horse but....wait..what does messi have to prove he is lazy.When the opposition counters and everybody falls back and the defense line of the opposition starts to go deep in our half,you see messi way beyond the offside trap.As barca regains the ball and attacks and the team move forwards,one see messi still in deep in the oppositions half.If messi is behind in the mid and attack progresses he hardly sprints forwards.And how can you blame the tactics when tata was the same coach now and at the start of the season and to some months before messi had been running normally.I don't think you have to have an arguement about his laziness.I am not one of those who does not watch barca matches.I do.And the difference is clearly visible.He is static as hell.The priority to pass the ball is always to messi but still he gets so less of the ball.Messi dissapeared in the classico.I could see ronaldo on the stands more than I saw messi in the game.One may be unlucky to net be visible for one match but almost every match.Some of you are deluded.He clearly is thinking of the world cup ahead.But oh...let's just blame it on tata and the tactics although tata and the tactics have been same this entire season.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I also feel like we will see the best Messi at the WC and next season. Regardless of what anyone says, the world cup has to be in the back of his mind. I still feel that he has been trying hard and doing all that he can to win games for us, but he hasn't be going above-and-beyond super saiyan mode 110% like he used to in previous years. That, to me, is probably due to fear of re-injury and acknowledgment of the impending World Cup. He plays smarter and more calculated... but he still tries, how anyone can doubt that or call him "lazy" or "apathetic" is beyond me.

At the same time... he probably sees that running like a headless chicken is worthless anyway. DonAK nailed it. What's the use of "running more" if he's getting the ball in useless and pointless positions? He walks because he knows it is up to his team to advance the ball up to a certain point, where he then gets in positions to make runs or get the ball and try to make plays. Messi is the definition of efficiency in my mind... he always has been. He doesn't run around when he doesn't need too... he conserves his energy for the right moments, and then explodes in bursts to beat past defenders and make plays. His calculated energy expenditure does not = lazy IMO.

Basically, I feel like Messi hasn't been 100%, but he also hasn't had the environment where it's even been possible to reach that level. When you factor in the fact that he is attacking with essentially incompetent strikers (Pedro and Alexis, therefore always making him ultra-marked), the club has an overall bad vibe and atmosphere about it, none of the players are on the same page tactically, and we go through Messi and the middle far less now... and we never play triangles or 1-2's.... how can anyone expect Messi to play at the godlike level he was at before at this time?

I feel the World Cup will give him some fresh air and re-invigorate his hunger, and he'll dig deep and try to bring out his best. A new coach, a fortified squad and some new motivation and sound tactics and I feel that Messi could EASILY return to godlike levels by the end of next season.

The talent is there just as much as ever, it's just the team is dysfunctional, and it's unreasonable to expect him to be able to perform to his pre-injury godmode level at all times and bail us out. I don't think he deserves as much criticism as he's been getting... even in his less than 100% state he is still our best player by a margin and our most dangerous goal threat.

I doubt it. I am one of those who don't believe that he is saving for the WC, even though I do think it is natural that he wants to avoid injuries. I think he is giving almost his 100% to our team. What worries me though, is his rusty touches and finishing, which will not go away suddenly during and after the WC. If Messi doesn't quickly improve his form, he will not be any different this summer and beyond.

Also, I don't think anyone is expecting Messi to run like a headless chicken or covering 12k every game. Suarez is not, neither is Ronaldo or Ibra for example. What people expect Messi is not run for the sake of running, rather he should be more mobile and less static when his teammates have the ball, i.e. he should have more off-the-ball movement to create space for himself. If he remains static and not moving much, it is much easier for opposing players to predict where the ball is going to be received by Messi, thus intercepting the ball or dispossessing him. And by not moving much, Messi makes opposing players' job to close in on him much easier, of course Messi will always find a wall of bodies to penetrate.

 

[Kerrybai]

^ You should probably stop worrying about his 'decline' and just wait for the world cup and first half of 2014/2015. His Argentina performances have been good this season and hopefully that will continue, and of course next season we will have a new coach and hopefully a team back on top of the world. If Messi is really decling have you have claimed then I really worry for the rest of our team too, more than likely the players are suffering from bad tactics, poor motivation etc. Messi has to share his part of the blame for sure but let's not go overboard claiming a decline in his talent until the Christmas break.

 

[NotInHere]

This. It pains many of us to admit it, but Messi is simply not the same player that we fell in love with many years ago. I used to be awed by his magic game in and game out back in those days, nowadays he is so predictable, you know most of the time he is going to start a quick dribble, trying to get past one or two players and then taking the shot in the center of the goal with his left foot. Opposing players kind of had him figured out. Throwing bodies in the middle will block either him or his shots, or both. Magic happens few and far between these days. And his touches and his finishing in general have been poor for quite a long time.

We don't know why. Whether it is due to health issues (both physical and psychological), or him passing his peak already, or him saving for the WC, nobody knows for sure. Bad tatics and teammates playing poorly certainly had an effect on his game; but it eats me alive to say this, individually, Messi is not the same player he was before. It eats me alive to see Ronaldo, being two years older, is stealing Messi's thunder.

If Messi never recovers from this bad form he is in, if he deteriorates further from now on, can he be billed the best player in the world presently, let alone best player of all time?

this 100%

 

[Mitchell1978]

If Messi never recovers from this bad form he is in,

people here are always so melodramatic, he's in a bad stretch of form.. and then all of a sudden he's finished or whatever, form is temporary, comes and goes, i'm confident he will regain his form

 

[Lomar1o]

this 100%

yes, well, mainly because in his worst year he scores like 40+ goals in a season?

 

[iniesta_8]

The problem is that you lose mainly quickness when getting older.

For a player like Ibra this isn't such a problem, because he's never been the quickest anyways. For a small quick player like Messi quickness is everything. So it's obvious Messi won't be the best player with 30 anymore. Though i hope he can keep it up until 28.