10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Kerrybai]

Form is kept until you lose it. He lost it around that time. I'm also talking about Messi specifically. He used to be able to score regardless of how the team was performing, to pull through when the team needed him. He hasn't done it in a while.

And the team used to play through him more, just look at his average touches and passes per game, now for some reason we don't go through the middle as much, instead we use the wings and send cross after cross into our small players, but hey that must be Messi's fault too.

He isnt that involved cuz he barely moves anymore, so the midfield has to play wide.

His movement is not much different to his season under Tito. Our overall play however has changed a lot, no more triangles etc.

 

[Flavia]

He isnt that involved cuz he barely moves anymore, so the midfield has to play wide.

No, that's not it. He is isolated because Tata's tactics is to play down the wings and cross. Barça is playing less thru the middle, almost no 1-2's anymore. Messi walks since Pep's days. It was less noticable because he was more involved.

 

[Alik]

Sorry but that's a lot of BS. The team has been playing poorly since exactly your arbitrary cut-off mark. To hold Messi accountable to extraordinary play despite the team's overall mediocrity just because in the past he has been able to save the team's ass, is beyond unreasonable.

I'm holding him accountable for what I wish for him. If he is to be called the best player in the world and ever then he needs to do that. If he cannot do that anymore, that doesn't make him crap, but it means that he is not the best. I've also seen Messi missing chances that he would have finished before, and being less sharp, and that sort of thing has nothing to do with team performance.

Sure he is performing decently. The world is full of decent players.

The team is slumping badly, but lets blame Messi, he is clearly at fault for not being able to single-handily win games for a mediocre-performing team with his superhuman efforts.

I never said he is to blame for the teams performance. You are putting words in my mouth.

I said he is off form. If you think he is on form, then we simply disagree.

 

[Gamegod]

No, that's not it. He is isolated because Tata's tactics is to play down the wings and cross. Barça is playing less thru the middle, almost no 1-2's anymore. Messi walks since Pep's days. It was less noticable because he was more involved.

I dont agree with that, the midfield has no optinons than to play wide cuz in the middle is no movement, he often stands between the defenders.

 

[Flavia]

I dont agree with that, the midfield has no optinons than to play wide cuz in the middle is no movement, he often stands between the defenders.

Messi was never a 9, to only receive the final pass. He is less involved in the build up, because Tata's tactics are different than Pep or Tito's. The excess in crossing is also a good indicator of this.

 

[Kerrybai]

I dont agree with that, the midfield has no optinons than to play wide cuz in the middle is no movement, he often stands between the defenders.

Our movement upfront from all 3 forwards is poor, and to make things worse a when the players make runs in behind our midfielders often ignore them. Also Messi can be very effective receiving the ball when standing static as he has the ability to turn away from them at speed when the ball reaches his feet. Our tactics seriously blow at the moment, at least before Christmas we were hitting teams on the counter and mixing the play up by playing long balls out wide from the back. Right now we appear to have no game-plan.

 

[serghei]

Arbitrary number of games to suit your point. The team is off form, Messi is still accounting for nearly 50% of the team's scoring. If you can't see that as the problem, then I don't know what to tell you.

Come on, man, he made his point. Messi is off form. 11 games is a big enough margin -- that's 2-3 months right there. This season he has 3 goals more than Alexis in the league if we don't count the penalties. And he has played 200 minutes more than him.

 

[Sumlit]

I'm holding him accountable for what I wish for him. If he is to be called the best player in the world and ever then he needs to do that. If he cannot do that anymore, that doesn't make him crap, but it means that he is not the best. I've also seen Messi missing chances that he would have finished before, and being less sharp, and that sort of thing has nothing to do with team performance.

Sure he is performing decently. The world is full of decent players.



I never said he is to blame for the teams performance. You are putting words in my mouth.

I said he is off form. If you think he is on form, then we simply disagree.

If you're going to hold him accountable, then lets begin by holding his striking partners accountable as well, because you know, this IS a team, not a one man show.

Using your arbitrary game number of the past 11 games, Alexis Sanchez has score 1 goal in those past 11 games, that's right, one measly goal. Further, in his last 20 games for Barcelona, Alexis Sanchez has scored only 4 goals.

More. In the last 11 games, Pedro has also only scored 1 goal. In his last 20 games for Barcelona he has also only scored 4 total goals.

So, Messi's striking partners, those who are supposed to help him in the scoring duties and take heat and defenders off him, have scored a grand total of 2 goals in the last 11 games combined, and 8 goals in the last 20.

I don't think Messi is his 90 goals a season form, but a lot of what's happening to him has to do with just the putrid form of the entire team and the total inability of other forwards to even present a remote scoring threat to take heat and defenders off him.

 

[serghei]

No, that's not it. He is isolated because Tata's tactics is to play down the wings and cross. Barça is playing less thru the middle, almost no 1-2's anymore. Messi walks since Pep's days. It was less noticable because he was more involved.

No. He is isolated because his off the ball movement nowadays is close to zero. He has three gears now, slow walk -- normal walk -- sprint, and 80% of the time he's in the first two. How do you expect to play great if you don't run? In the CL he ran 1 km more than our GK. Hell, Howard Webb ran more than Messi.

Messi walks since Pep days --> Not true.

 

[Gamegod]

No. He is isolated because his off the ball movement nowadays is close to zero. He has three gears now, slow walk -- normal walk -- sprint, and 80% of the time he's in the first two. How do you expect to play great if you don't run? In the CL he ran 1 km more than our GK. Hell, Howard Webb ran more than Messi.

Messi walks since Pep days --> Not true.

exactly! I wonder how people cant see that.

 

[Flavia]

No. He is isolated because his off the ball movement nowadays is close to zero. He has three gears now, slow walk -- normal walk -- sprint, and 80% of the time he's in the first two. How do you expect to play great if you don't run? In the CL he ran 1 km more than our GK. Hell, Howard Webb ran more than Messi.

Messi walks since Pep days --> Not true.

He is not isolated because he walks during games... he's been walking since I don't remember when. People complain about this for at least 3 seasons now. He was walking under Tito, still was putting those crazy performances in the 2nd half of 2012, beginning of 2013, until he got injured. Barça does not play thru the middle anymore. There's no indicative that running makes one play good, or Pedro and Alexis would be the best players ever.

 

[Alik]

If you're going to hold him accountable, then lets begin by holding his striking partners accountable as well, because you know, this IS a team, not a one man show.

This is a player thread. I made no mention of the team. I compared Messi to Messi himself.


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[Neymessi]

People defending messi is laughable.He has clearly been lazy.Its not coincidence that we were in the race for the treble and as soon as he turns lazy we go from treble to potentially trophyless.It may be his fear for injuries or him saving for the world cup but it is something.He is the best player in the world but he clearly does not want to move.He was always immobile but not to this extent that he runs a little more than pinto or that when the opposition counters and reaches our penalty are,messi is still in the opposition's penalty area.I don't blame him.He has given us so many trophies and if he is saving himself for the world cup,then I don't care,but saying that messi is still giving his all makes no sense.

 

[Sumlit]

This is a player thread. I made no mention of the team. I compared Messi to Messi himself.


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Messi performance is directly and indirectly affected by those surrounding him. If the team performs poorly, Messi will not be as effective.

 

[Flavia]

He run yesterday as well, more than once... There were similar plays to that one many times this season as well. With less space than that of the gif, as well. What does that prove, then?

exactly! I wonder how people cant see that.

I also wonder how people can't see the current tactics doesn't suit the team and is hurting the overall game of all players.