10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Hamzah]

We need to play Messi as a mf now. He is no longer the young tearaway. He should play behind Suarez and Nrymar.

I knew that day would come but not as soon as this...

 

[Mitchell1978]

some quotes from Mourinho, not exactly Messi's best 'friend'

Jose Mourinho says Lionel Messi should not be considered the scapegoat after Argentina's World Cup final defeat to Germany.

The Argentina captain had a chance to replicate the achievement of Diego Maradona in 1986 by leading his team to the World Cup trophy, but they fell at the final hurdle as Mario Gotze scored late on for Germany.

When asked if he thought Messi should be a scapegoat for this, Mourinho said: 'Not at all. I think in the first half he had fantastic options.

'I would like to know why Lavezzi stayed in the dressing room at half-time,' Mourinho told Yahoo Sports World Soccer Live shortly after the final ended at the Maracana.

'Argentina had been playing with two lines of four, with Enzo Perez closing Phillipp Lahm and Lavezzi doing the same on the other side. Because they were so compact Messi could walk while defending and then when he got the ball he had the energy to make the difference.

'When Sabella brought Aguero on for Lavezzi, Argentina changed from a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 and they lost a lot of balance. Messi had to run much more after Lavezzi went off.

'The team lost balance and especially energy - energy that they needed in extra-time.'

Mourinho said Messi deserves respect 'more than ever' after Argentina came so close to being crowned world champions.

'It's easy to respect him when he has won but when he has lost, it's not so easy,' the Portuguese coach said.

'He is still a historical player. He does not need to be world champion to be a historical player, especially in this last decade.

'For me Pele is Pele and Maradona is Maradona. It's not for me to compare players from different generations. Maybe because he is from the same generation as when I was born - for me Maradona is Maradona.'

 

[barca7788]

We need to play Messi as a mf now. He is no longer the young tearaway. He should play behind Suarez and Nrymar.

i wd rather move him to right perm.
Messi as a MF is what his role right now and pretty much not liking what we`r seeing.

 

[Flavia]

I don't get people still complaining about him being "lazy", when there's clearly something VERY wrong with him.
This isn't normal, and it's happening every game now. I never saw any other professional player vomiting like this.

 

[serghei]

No, you shouldn't keep your mouth shut, serghei. It is just that you are always critical of him (granted you are right most of the time) and seldom do we see you give him credit.

Look, nobody likes seeing him walking. But most of us still appreciate him for what he does for us. You are just too critical, nothing short of a peak Messi will please you, it seems.

Maybe you're right. But let me tell you something. I've praised Messi after Barca Madrid 2-1, when he played a rather poor game. But I've seen him give 100% for the team. He didn't do much, had an off game, even missed a pretty easy chance at 1-0, on 1 vs 1 with Lopez. But, damn it, he tried. Now, he doesn't even look like he's trying. And I have a hard time praising a player who I sense he's not giving his all out there in the grass.

Maybe he's really injured, in that case, I'm pretty off my base here. But I do think there's some sort of self indulgency in his case. He's just not as ambitious as he was. I remember seing Messi with his shirt soaked in sweat -- and that in a Supercup game, a rather minor trophy. Now, in some of the most important games, he seems so lost and without nerve it's so sad to watch.

Some say we all should kneel to Messi, cause Messi is a god and Barca must find a way to please him at all costs. I don't think so. I think it is something mutual. His contracts are getting higher and higher, and yet his motivation is getting lower and lower.

But, as I said, I'm a spoiled brat and from now on I'll skip the Messi tread.

 

[Messi91]

We need to play Messi as a mf now. He is no longer the young tearaway. He should play behind Suarez and Nrymar.

Playing him in an attacking midfield role is his best anyway. Doesn't need to play a deep midfield role like a Schweinsteiger, Pirlo, Xavi type. Play him with quality ahead of him that he can pass to or that will drag defenders and give him more space to terrorise.

 

[Ryan_Cule]

6 La Liga
3 Champions League
2 Copa Rey
6 Super Cup Epaña
2 Super Cup Europa
2 Club World Cup
1 Olympic gold
4 Balón oro
3 Golden boots
1 World Cup golden ball



- Oh yeah sell him.

 

[serghei]

Schweinsteiger is my favorite player outside of our many players. That was the only sweet element of a completely dark chapter of my life.

Schweinsteiger is a class act IMO.

 

[instinct]

I watched every second of the game.

He is a pure magician. His dribblings are still insane. His vision, his pass accuracy. What do you guys complain? You think that he's not motivated?

Even ex-footballers like Scholl say that he is the only player who manages to conserve his energy to be fit for 120 minutes. While every other player was tired, he could have played another 20 minutes on top-level at least.

I don't expect him to dribble past 5 players to be the best. I expect him to be the best at football. Football is a team sport rather than a one-man show. He proved that he is capable of playing for the team, hell he proved that years ago but at this WC he put his individual goals aside to give his country some joy and people still criticize him. He showed his class at this WC and especially today but his teammates sucked. People should regard this and Germany's performance. Germany is no Almeria. It's difficult for such a player to show magic dribbles every 10 minutes. He did what he could do.

For me, he is the best player of the world. He is still as skilled as before but he developed into a team-player and he is still the best at it.

Thanks.

 

[Djab]

- Oh yeah sell him.

People speaking nonsense should be ignored. So ignore what's to ignore.

 

[Djab]

10 - Lionel Messi

Kleberson leaves behind a greater legacy than Messi...

And Arbeloa does too.

 

[DonAndres]

As i said im not talking about the "s" word. But that kind of attitude in judging a player is wrong. So what if past his prime Messi is still one of the best. The days of judging a player solely by talent is over. We have to judge his overall contribution to the team not just goals or assists. And Messi's contribution in the last season has been unacceptable. Walking around lazily is not only bad for him but the team as it rubs off on others. No player is bigger than the club. And since Messi is the best we demand more from him. He has to live with that as it comes with his GOAT status.

Again i hope im wrong. A winning goal in the CL final with would wipe away all the pain

His contribution in overall play (minus goals and assists), even though his off-the-ball game is very poor, still eclipses all of our attackers with ease. I could just maybe understand this suggestion if he was toxic to the club's progress despite his talent (like Ronaldinho/Deco during their decline, Xavi/Alves now, etc.) but that is not the case as he's been one of the only players pulling us forward when so many things are dragging us back.

There has to be reason to push him out. I simply cannot agree to the idea that Messi walks because he doesn't give a shit anymore. He was walking during a World Cup which is the one thing in his career that he doesn't have, the one thing he wants most to a level of so much desperation. He didn't look lifeless and uncaring on the ball as he fought hard to create what he could when he was in possession. He didn't look unmotivated in the games where he excelled (Clasico, Man City, etc.). Apathy doesn't fluctuate this much and there's not much evidence to support it.

His walking is a result of two things (in my opinion of course): A lack of fitness and a lack of authority. Messi is the kind of player who needs to be coached, which isn't a big problem usually as it's common for many players. Tata was massively inactive and didn't instill the sort of personal discipline in his players that Pep did, which led to the players making their own decisions on how to work and thus guys like Alves never cared about defending, Messi walked a lot, and even Busquets didn't bother to stay in his position too often. Bad coach=bad training=lack of fitness=amplified flaws. Messi during Pep's era had some pretty great stamina and seemed invincible, yet now he looked winded in almost every WC game regardless of his motivation and got regular injuries in 2013.

That's why I feel this whole criticism is misguided. People aren't distinguishing between a lack of motivation and a lack of self discipline. One simply doesn't care and the other simply can't be expected to control himself. Messi is in a downward trend right now and it'll take some work to shift that momentum, it's just a matter of someone being willing enough to make that change. (That is unless, Messi actually has some sort of medical condition).

 

[Ursegor]

strange that i just thought the opposite. winning WC will make vanish all the hunger he has left in the game.

I understand the thought process behind this but that's usually not what happens IMO. Look how the Spanish core played in 10/11 after the World Cup victory. Arguably the height of the Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta midfield, crowned by the 5-0 Clasico and 3-1 in Wembley. Look how Iniesta played after Euro 2012 and winning the European Player Of The Year award when he got a bit of individual recognition. The football he played from August until around February was possibly his best. Look how Ribery played when he had a chance to win the Ballon d'Or and how he completely faded after he didn't get it.

Usually you ride this kind of euphoria train for a while. I'm 100 % convinced that Ronaldinho gave up on football after failing to lead Brazil in 2006. For Brazilians that stage is obviously particularly important. 05/06 he was on top of the world, winning the double with Barca and getting applauded in the Bernabeu. After the failed World Cup he didn't give a damn anymore.

I'm not claiming he will do a Ronaldinho. Maybe he'll get back to his best. But realistically part of him died today IMO.

 

[serghei]

His walking is a result of two things (in my opinion of course): A lack of fitness and a lack of authority. Messi is the kind of player who needs to be coached, which isn't a big problem usually as it's common for many players. Tata was massively inactive and didn't instill the sort of personal discipline in his players that Pep did, which led to the players making their own decisions on how to work and thus guys like Alves never cared about defending, Messi walked a lot, and even Busquets didn't bother to stay in his position too often. Bad coach=bad training=lack of fitness=amplified flaws. Messi during Pep's era had some pretty great stamina and seemed invincible, yet now he looked winded in almost every WC game regardless of his motivation and got regular injuries in 2013.

This could be true. Sure, another explanation would be that, after 5-6 years of top top football, he has lost some of that hunger which made him walk that extra mile. What more is there to win for him with Barca that he hasn't already won?

If the desire to win all the time doesn't come from within the player, it's very hard for a manager to instill it again.

 

[Mitchell1978]

from barcastuff:

Messi: "A shame we can't offer the fans the trophy, but we leave with our head up high, we have peace of mind. I'm proud to be Argentine."

Messi: "This was a chance to give the fans some joy after all the sadness. Golden Ball is not important, all I wanted was to lift the cup"

Messi: "It was so close, we're angry to lose like that. Best player of tournament? Doesn't matter, you don't play for individual trophies."