10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Ursegor]

Well I don't know how Spain can legally claim taxation from a dual citizenship individual when the income is coming from out of Spain. It would not seem logical, but you have a point, it is Spain.

That's fairly normal. If it wasn't logical as you say depositing money in tax havens would basically be legal (profiting from low taxation capital income in a different country). But it isn't, pretty much nowhere. Ask Hoeneß. There is also a certain logic to it. Imagine being a US/German dual citizen, depositing all your money in USA where it will be taxed it but at the same time living in Germany, profiting from German free healthcare, free education etc. It's also why the Schumacher brothers officially emigrated to Switzerland/Austria. They actually never hid that the German tax system was the reason and admitted as much.

 

[Sumlit]

That's fairly normal. If it wasn't logical as you say depositing money in tax havens would basically be legal (profiting from low taxation capital income in a different country). But it isn't, pretty much nowhere. Ask Hoeneß. There is also a certain logic to it. Imagine being a US/German dual citizen, depositing all your money in USA where it will be taxed it but at the same time living in Germany, profiting from German free healthcare, free education etc. It's also why the Schumacher brothers officially emigrated to Switzerland/Austria. They actually never hid that the German tax system was the reason and admitted as much.

That is not what I meant. I meant money made elsewhere. Of course it is not logical that I claim money made in Germany in the US instead to benefit from lower taxation. In your scenario, I would claim money made in Germany, in Germany, but all other money made from abroad, in the US to pay lesser taxes. It is a perfectly legal method of tax avoidance.

If Messi claims Barca wages, local endorsements, and income made from Barcelona, in Spain, but chooses to claim all other income made abroad with representative companies in lower taxation countries or in Argentina, this should not be illegal.

 

[Kerrybai]

This may sound stupid but can an individual do the whole tax avoidance thing like a company would? For example google with t
the double Irish arrangement/dutch sandwhich? Fair enough his wages couldn't go down this route but what about his image rights an all that?


Anyway hat trick tomorrow to reach Telmo Zarra. Then another hat trick vs Ajax to reach Raul.

 

[Andrew M]

I hope Messi's performance is not affected by this

 

[Ursegor]

If Messi claims Barca wages, local endorsements, and income made from Barcelona, in Spain, but chooses to claim all other income made abroad with representative companies in lower taxation countries or in Argentina, this should not be illegal.

Well. To make it short. It is. And it is not exclusively a Spanish thing either. It's called "world income principle": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Taxation_systems

Countries that tax income generally use one of two systems: territorial or residential. In the territorial system, only local income – income from a source inside the country – is taxed. In the residential system, residents of the country are taxed on their worldwide (local and foreign) income, while nonresidents are taxed only on their local income.

And as the graphic alongside it shows: Pretty much the entire world uses residential income laws:

Dark blue.

I find this discussion a bit funny anyway. First because no one here has a clue about the topic. Second because we're talking about the authorities and jurisdiction of a European member state here, not some bum referee or Marca editor trying to start a smear campaign against Messi. Whatever happens now happens as rightfully as humanly possible I would think. If not for the fact alone that the most expensive expert lawyers are defending Messi's cause.

 

[Andrew M]

He will probably end up paying a settlement to avoid a prison sentence.

 

[Stric]

we're talking about the authorities and jurisdiction of a European member state here

That should mean something, but unfortunately it doesn't, not necessarily. Corruption is deeply ingrained in some parts of the EU. Including Spain. Especially Spain.

 

[Ursegor]

That should mean something, but unfortunately it doesn't, not necessarily. Corruption is deeply ingrained in some parts of the EU. Including Spain. Especially Spain.

Oh, for sure. But publicly denouncing a football player is usually not part of such corruption. Normally you'd expect the opposite in fact.

 

[Androutsos]

The fact that it is a MADRID judge should kinda prove all.

 

[Luftstalag14]

The fact that it is a MADRID judge should kinda prove all.

I thought the judge was from the Gavà district in Barcelona, not Madrid?

 

[Egert]

He will beast the game today. 1 goal and 2 assists. Or 2 goals and 2 assists if other players are playing too.

 

[messi2140]

4 goals 2 assists

 

[aki13]

0 goals and 1 assist in a 1-0 win

 

[DennyCrane]

I personally find it unlikely that Messi knew nothing about it, because you have to sign a lot of stuff to create these shell companies and you'd be crazy to blindly sign whatever papers your dad puts in front of you without the least bit of curiosity.

Yep. Also, negligent ignorance is sufficient to constitute the subjective element of the offence as well, and for a good reason: Every potential tax evader could go unpunished if he willfully ignored his tax issues and pass guilt to his accountant, attorney, bank advisor etc.

Having said that, stuff like this usually ends with conditional discontinuation aka settlement for first time offenders; mostly because courts throughout Europe can't be arsed anymore to delve deep into cases because of severe overstress. The fact that the prosecution at this point disagrees with a discontinuation is because they want to prove a point mostly because a: Leo is a celeb b: the amount of taxes evaded and c: Spain's a financial mess so they want to encourage tax compliance. They'll come down to earth eventually though.

 

[raskolnikov]

Should have become la liga topscorer tonight.