10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[serghei]

Serghei clearly has a hidden agenda against Messi... he has always made it clear

Not true. I have a problem with those who claim Messi won X titles on his own. At Barca, Messi has a great team behind him, but he wins things on his own. At Argentina, he doesn't win because the team is poor.

Vlom said Messi = 25 titles. That's wrong. Barcelona = 25 titles, the same way it's not Messi = 0 titles, it's Argentina = 0 titles. You lose as a team, you win as a team. Simple. You can't take the cake when the team wins, and place the blame on others (weak teammates) when the team loses. It's not fair for the others.

Other than that, I don't give a shit if others think I have an agenda against Messi.

 

[Flavia]

Not true. I have a problem with those who claim Messi won X titles on his own. At Barca, Messi has a great team behind him, but he wins things on his own. At Argentina, he doesn't win because the team is poor.

Vlom said Messi = 25 titles. That's wrong. Barcelona = 25 titles, the same way it's not Messi = 0 titles, it's Argentina = 0 titles. You lose as a team, you win as a team. Simple.

Yes, so, so simple. That might also explain rm's recent title history. Or how much they won with di stefano... It's a team sport, but individuals do make a lot of difference. Especially players like Messi.
It's strange you claim to have started watching Barça in 1998, endured the gaspart era, and still undermines Messi's influence, and how much difference he made. I also find weird how you rate Xavi and Iniesta as the same. To me Xavi is also ahead of Iniesta, by not much, but he had more influence in the way the team played.

 

[Galning]

Yes, so, so simple. That might also explain rm's recent title history. Or how much they won with di stefano... It's a team sport, but individuals do make a lot of difference. Especially players like Messi.
It's strange you claim to have started watching Barça in 1998, endured the gaspart era, and still undermines Messi's influence, and how much difference he made. I also find weird how you rate Xavi and Iniesta as the same. To me Xavi is also ahead of Iniesta, by not much, but he had more influence in the way the team played.

He said he rather watches good matches so I assume he didn't see much back then, Flavia.

 

[Flavia]

He said he rather watches good matches so I assume he didn't see much back then, Flavia.

Good point.

 

[serghei]

It's strange you claim to have started watching Barça in 1998, endured the gaspart era, and still undermines Messi's influence, and how much difference he made. I also find weird how you rate Xavi and Iniesta as the same. To me Xavi is also ahead of Iniesta, by not much, but he had more influence in the way the team played.

It would be strange if during the Gaspart era we had a colection of world class players on every single position, or if during Gaspart era we had 7-8 World Cup and double European Cup winners in the team. But... we didn't. Or if during the Gaspart era we had the 3rd and 4th best players in the world, which we transferred for around 200m.

 

[Flavia]

It would be strage if during the Gaspart era we had a colection of world class players on every single position, or if during Gaspart era we had 7-8 World Cup and double European Cup winners.

I suppose figo, kluivert, pep, rivaldo, luis enrique, de boer, cocu, they were all trash.

 

[serghei]

I suppose figo, kluivert, pep, rivaldo, luis enrique, de boer, cocu, they were all trash.

Compared with Xavi, Iniesta, Dani Alves, Busquets, Puyol, Eto'o, David Villa, Henry, Neymar, Suarez (more recently)? Not trash, but not close either.

 

[Flavia]

Compared with Xavi, Iniesta, Dani Alves, Busquets, Puyol, Eto'o, David Villa, Henry, Neymar, Suarez (more recently)? Not trash, but not close either.

Yeah... figo, pep, kluivert and rivaldo not "close" to those

 

[serghei]

Yeah... figo, pep, kluivert and rivaldo not "close" to those

Not even one of those players would have made the 2011 first 11. Not one.

 

[NotInHere]

Not true. I have a problem with those who claim Messi won X titles on his own. At Barca, Messi has a great team behind him, but he wins things on his own. At Argentina, he doesn't win because the team is poor.

Vlom said Messi = 25 titles. That's wrong. Barcelona = 25 titles, the same way it's not Messi = 0 titles, it's Argentina = 0 titles. You lose as a team, you win as a team. Simple. You can't take the cake when the team wins, and place the blame on others (weak teammates) when the team loses. It's not fair for the others.

Other than that, I don't give a shit if others think I have an agenda against Messi.

Football is not a one man show, we all know that, but Messi has been the main reason Barca has been as successful as they have.

He's not just one of the main reasons, he has been the main reason, I don't know why its hard for you to admit that...

 

[Flavia]

Not even one of those players would have made the 2011 first 11. Not one.

More than one could. I don't think you watched rivaldo play. Or figo. And that was not the point, either. Good job diverting it

 

[serghei]

He's not just one of the main reasons, he has been the main reason, I don't know why its hard for you to admit that...

That's not what I'm arguing against. I'm well aware he is the player with the most important contribution, that was never the topic.

 

[serghei]

More than one could. I don't think you watched rivaldo play. Or figo. And that was not the point, either. Good job diverting it

The point is that we had in Pep's time a much superior team to the one during Gaspart era. And it's true. Again, we had 7-8 World Cup winners, the backbone of the Spain NT, all from the same generation more or less.

 

[Flavia]

The point is that we had in Pep's time a much superior team to the one during Gaspart era. And it's true. Again, we had 7-8 World Cup winners, the backbone of the Spain NT, all from the same generation more or less.

Who the hell was talking about Pep? Or the 10-11 season? Not me. I was talking about Messi's contribution during the 11 years he is in the 1st team. And how that made Barça the huge club it is now. And you were undermining it. And now even got to the lenghts of saying players like rivaldo and figo weren't close to the level of some players they clearly are.

 

[xXKonan]

I couldn't travel there, but I am supporting from home!

- LIO —