10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[serghei]

I guess some will only realize how difference he makes once he retires, sadly. Or it wont matter, theres always a bayern arsenal match to watch

Arsenal - Bayern. Not Bayern - Arsenal. Big difference.

 

[Flavia]

A __________ part. Fill in your desired word. Vital, huge, large etc. But a part. Football is a team sport. Players don't win games on their own. The team does. It is impossible to say what would have happened in the absence of a player. Everything changes without Messi, but great teams adapt. Barcelona would have adapted without Messi and would have won many trophies. Maybe not as many, that was a stretch from me, but a lot of them.

I guess you started following Barça after Messi was already here, to say that. Take a look at the history, and you'll see how wrong you are. Barça wouldn't be as big as it is now, without Messi.

 

[serghei]

I guess you started following Barça after Messi was already here, to say that. Take a look at the history, and you'll see how wrong you are. Barça wouldn't be as big as it is now, without Messi.

I started watching Barca in 1998.

Wouldn't be as big as it is now without Messi and some other players. Messi on his own won nothing with Argentina. Messi has won so much with Barca and so little with Argentina because Barcelona is an elite team and he's surrounded with elite players. Argentina isn't.

You leave out that Messi has had around him the main members of Spain's golden generation of players.

 

[Vlom]

 

[Flavia]

I started watching Barca in 1998.

Wouldn't be as big as it is now without Messi and some other players. Messi on his own won nothing with Argentina. Messi has won so much with Barca and so little with Argentina because Barcelona is an elite team. Argentina isn't.

Messi almost won the wc with Argentina, and looking at the team they had, it was pretty damn impressive they almost won that, losing for details and bad finishing. It's very easy to try to belittle him using the Argentina card, when it's actually the other way around. A poor side reached some impressive heights because of him.

in the internet is also easy to claim things no one can prove.

 

[Vlom]

Messi almost won the wc with Argentina, and looking at the team they had, it was pretty damn impressive they almost won that, losing for details and bad finishing. It's very easy to try to belittle him using the Argentina card, when it's actually the other way around. A poor side reached some impressive heights because of him.

It's not easy, it's a freaking madrid fan argument !

Anyone with objectivity can aknowledge that taking this Argentina to 2 finals is amazing in itself.

 

[serghei]

Messi almost won the wc with Argentina, and looking at the team they had, it was pretty damn impressive they almost won that, losing for details and bad finishing. It's very easy to try to belittle him using the Argentina card, when it's actually the other way around. A poor side reached some impressive heights because of him.

Argentina poor? They're one of the best 5-6 NTs in the world. Only Germany had a better team at the world Cup.

 

[raskolnikov]

Argentina poor? The're one of the best 5-6 NTs in the world.

On paper, they have looked like shit ever since the wc started bar the paraguay game during the copa.

 

[Flavia]

Argentina poor? The're one of the best 5-6 NTs in the world. Only Germany had a better team at the world Cup.

They have players, but not a team. It's been like that for a while now. Even before Sabella resigned. And you just said Argentina is not an elite team, a few posts back.

 

[Vlom]

Argentina poor? They're one of the best 5-6 NTs in the world. Only Germany had a better team at the world Cup.

Messi has won so much with Barca and so little with Argentina because Barcelona is an elite team and he's surrounded with elite players. Argentina isn't.

You should really try to make up your mind, though it's easy to get the general idea, even if your arguments don't make sense.

 

[serghei]

On paper, they have looked like shit ever since the wc started bar the paraguay game during the copa.

Germany looked like shit in some games as well. Should have been knocked off by Algeria. Holland should have been knocked off by Mexico, but Robben dived and they went trough. Holland was also close to being knocked off by fucking Costa Rica. Argentina's defence was impressive. The best defence at the world cup IIRC.

 

[serghei]

You should really try to make up your mind, though it's easy to get the general idea, even if your arguments don't make sense.

Elite means more than top 5-6.

 

[Flavia]

Elite means more than top 5-6.

So you're making rules as you go now? Right

 

[Sumlit]

This is word for word the same argument he had a few month ago on a different thread about this subject. It's quite obvious he doesn't hold Messi to the same high esteem than the majority of Barcelona fans.

It is actually a bit sad he has admittedly watched arguably the best player to ever play the sport for his entire Barcelona career, yet undermines and underappreciates his impact on the unprecedented success of the team.

 

[serghei]

So you're making rules as you go now? Right

No, I just have a vast vocabulary. Elite - Great - Very Good - Good - Decent. Elite is a special word and I give it it's due consideration. Barcelona is elite, Argentina is very good.