10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[KingMessi]

I believe it was a game where Samper played and lost the ball?

 

[Vlom]

Yes his YC was against Roma.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Yup, vs roma. 8:16 Although it doesn't show the effort he put in running from the centre of the field and it's a bad angle.
Oh well, messi doesn't run, am I right guys?
[youtube]8EnqIyugHk4[/youtube]

 

[JamDav1982]

As if one video proves anything.

If there is a video of Ronaldo scoring a 30 yd goal or a defence splitting pass does it prove he does it all the time?

 

[Horatio]

Yup, vs roma. 8:16 Although it doesn't show the effort he put in running from the centre of the field and it's a bad angle.
Oh well, messi doesn't run, am I right guys?

In all fairness, one example doesn't prove much.

Also you can see the running from the midfield just before 8:16.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

In all fairness, one example doesn't prove much.

Well is exactly what messi said, Messi: "There is no need to run all the time. Everyone knows what they need to do and I wait for my moment."
Messi doesn't run all the time like a rabbit on meth, but he damn well does when the team needs it, like the iturbe case.
This is why I said that people who ask of him to run more don't understand football.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Messi doesnt run alot, he never did. I remember people saying how he ran more in Peps time, but when I checked avg distance ran in CL 2011 he actually ran less then in last years CL. So...yea, he doesnt run alot for whatever the reason (fatigue, muscle injuries) but as far as we are winning shitton of trophies I trust he knows what he is doing (as well as coaches who let him do it).

 

[DonAndres]

Messi doesn't need to run like Suarez or Rakitic, I'd just like him to run like younger Messi. If he committed to having the movement he did when he was 24 or even last season, there'd be 0 question about him or his performance.

I don't mind him not tracking back much, if anything he serves as a pretty good counterattacking outlet through that model. What I don't like is his tendency to be totally static at times during buildup. He doesn't get the ball as much due to his out-of-way positioning and when he does, he gets it in less ideal positions. Moreover, he gets the ball when he's practically standing which prevents him from doing much with it at all. There were a lot of times yesterday and recently where Messi would get the ball at a near standstill, take a few moments to decide what to do, and then pass it off to Iniesta or Rakitic without achieving anything. No quick accelerated dribble, no disrupting the defensive shape of the opposition, no avenue for a truly forward-moving team play.

That issue is almost entirely because of the way he doesn't receive the ball in a mobile state. He can easily accomplish a number of minor or major play-building maneuvers when he's on his toes and moving around to find space around or in between the defense. If he receives the ball in a moderate run while facing an opposition defender he already has the base velocity and momentum to destroy them on a dribble with ease. Even Messi can't regularly just receive the ball standing still and then beat his man from a losing position, which is why he doesn't attempt to do so and just idly passes it off. The kind of motion that this requires isn't even close to physically taxing because it's not even a consistent jog. It's more about mental awareness and staying on your toes to move and adjust your position every 5-10 seconds on average.

 

[Jamie Cal]

His ball recovery stats were quite good last year, no? More indicative of an effective press, but still.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Messi doesn't need to run like Suarez or Rakitic, I'd just like him to run like younger Messi. If he committed to having the movement he did when he was 24 or even last season, there'd be 0 question about him or his performance.

I don't mind him not tracking back much, if anything he serves as a pretty good counterattacking outlet through that model. What I don't like is his tendency to be totally static at times during buildup. He doesn't get the ball as much due to his out-of-way positioning and when he does, he gets it in less ideal positions. Moreover, he gets the ball when he's practically standing which prevents him from doing much with it at all. There were a lot of times yesterday and recently where Messi would get the ball at a near standstill, take a few moments to decide what to do, and then pass it off to Iniesta or Rakitic without achieving anything. No quick accelerated dribble, no disrupting the defensive shape of the opposition, no avenue for a truly forward-moving team play.

That issue is almost entirely because of the way he doesn't receive the ball in a mobile state. He can easily accomplish a number of minor or major play-building maneuvers when he's on his toes and moving around to find space around or in between the defense. If he receives the ball in a moderate run while facing an opposition defender he already has the base velocity and momentum to destroy them on a dribble with ease. Even Messi can't regularly just receive the ball standing still and then beat his man from a losing position, which is why he doesn't attempt to do so and just idly passes it off. The kind of motion that this requires isn't even close to physically taxing because it's not even a consistent jog. It's more about mental awareness and staying on your toes to move and adjust your position every 5-10 seconds on average.

Can you or the people who think like you back any of this up with stats?
Because it seems like we are not watching the same team.

 

[JamDav1982]

Can you or the people who think like you back any of this up with stats?
Because it seems like we are not watching the same team.

Barca in the second half vs Valencia, away to Leverkusen (although harsh as weak team) and in game yesterday have looked more laboured in attack then previously.

Now that is an extreme version as Messi just coming back from fitness but the team has looked more one paced and pedestrian in that time.

Could easy say well Messi has two goals and two assists but that is not something that people accept from other players like Ronaldo or even Cesc etc in past.

I AM NOT BLAMING MESSI for these games and understand he is coming back from injury but I think it has hampered the team. Passing is slower and more players have to cover for it etc.

Other games last season were frustrating at lack of tracking back and Marcelo ran fucking riot in home league game vs Barca and Real could have been well ahead because of it. Things like that are frustrating at times.

He is best ever and he can play how he wants as he is so good but that doesnt change the fact that AT TIMES it can be a bit frustrating if it is hampering the team.

 

[Sumlit]

Only movement related criticism Messi should be getting is when he's static offensively. He has developed this bad habit late in his career and is something he need to consciously work to correct because his best games last season came when he was active offensively and with involved offensive movement. Any other criticism about his movement is very unnecessary because he's never been that way, he won't change now, and frankly the team does not need that from him. If he gives it, it's only a plus.

The movement talk is quite often very overblown, specially originating on the game chat, which is a veritable cornucopia of erroneous narratives.

 

[Vlom]

He is best ever and he can play how he wants as he is so good but that doesnt change the fact that AT TIMES it can be a bit frustrating if it is hampering the team.

This I can wrap my head around.

Because from the overall discussion it seemed like people are jumping at Messi's throat after the guy gave us a trebble.

I don't care at all if he walks, unless it's repeatedly and/or it costs us trophies without him stepping up when it matters, so far it's not even clause to being an issue.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Messi doesn't need to run like Suarez or Rakitic, I'd just like him to run like younger Messi. If he committed to having the movement he did when he was 24 or even last season, there'd be 0 question about him or his performance.

I don't mind him not tracking back much, if anything he serves as a pretty good counterattacking outlet through that model. What I don't like is his tendency to be totally static at times during buildup. He doesn't get the ball as much due to his out-of-way positioning and when he does, he gets it in less ideal positions. Moreover, he gets the ball when he's practically standing which prevents him from doing much with it at all. There were a lot of times yesterday and recently where Messi would get the ball at a near standstill, take a few moments to decide what to do, and then pass it off to Iniesta or Rakitic without achieving anything. No quick accelerated dribble, no disrupting the defensive shape of the opposition, no avenue for a truly forward-moving team play.

That issue is almost entirely because of the way he doesn't receive the ball in a mobile state. He can easily accomplish a number of minor or major play-building maneuvers when he's on his toes and moving around to find space around or in between the defense. If he receives the ball in a moderate run while facing an opposition defender he already has the base velocity and momentum to destroy them on a dribble with ease. Even Messi can't regularly just receive the ball standing still and then beat his man from a losing position, which is why he doesn't attempt to do so and just idly passes it off. The kind of motion that this requires isn't even close to physically taxing because it's not even a consistent jog. It's more about mental awareness and staying on your toes to move and adjust your position every 5-10 seconds on average.

Well said Don. One could only hope that Messi changes this aspect of his game but I think he won't. He is close to perfection but I guess, nothing is perfect.

The question is why? He is plain lazy or preserving energy for those outbursts? I'd like to think that for someone like Messi who is not that old, he doesn't need to be that static to preserve the amount of energy he needs.

 

[anguy]

The question is why? He is plain lazy or preserving energy for those outbursts? I'd like to think that for someone like Messi who is not that old, he doesn't need to be that static to preserve the amount of energy he needs.

Maybe his injury isn't fully healed, maybe he still isn't fit. And maybe it's mental - he is afraid if he runs too much he'll reinjury himself.