10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[JamDav1982]

There is ALWAYS research needed. Research is knowledge. You are collecting information, analyze them and make a conclusion. Research is an absolute must.
I have done research on the Panama Leaks, on Mossack Fonseca and about the way creating offshore companies work i.e. how you found them, what is needed i.e. signing, starting capital, authentic passport etc.
Signing simply a random paper isn't enough, there is a noticable amount of things you need to ensure before you can create an offshore company abroad, and let me just tell you: You will have a very hard time to make all that, without letting the person founding it know about it.



You're mixing stuff up. I have said from the first post until now that Messi is using offshore accounts to launder his earnings.
It was Messi saying that he founded it, but didn't use it, which I find heavily unplausible.
Of course they gain something, which is Time. The alternative would be admitting everything before the investigations have even started.

How has any of that research about how companies are set up helped form your opinion that Messi is guilty?

You dont know anything more than anyone else depsite that research.

If anything it has left you thinking you are the informed one and know more than everyone else.

What way will they gain time that will prove to help them?

 

[Mitchell1978]

Alright, I have posted quite a few comments, but I can break it down for you:
Because he founded an offshore company in Panama, with the help of a company called Mossack Fonseca that is basically doing nothing else but creating offshore companies in tax havens for money laundering purposes. The company isn't just known till today, they were already very known in 2011 and prior to that. They even offer you such services as employing nominee shareholders to cover the whole thing and make it look like an actual running business. There is basically no other use to an offshore company, other than either use it (for what in Messis case?) or to launder money or commit tax frauds., which is what 99% of people who found one, actually do. Then he comes up with the explanation "I didn't use it.", which basically confirms that Megastar Enterprises exists (thus kinda approving that the source to the leaks is legit, at least on this one) but also makes me wonder: For what did he found a company then?

Again, its not illegal to set up companies in tax havens.
Almost all the big multinational company's do this btw, this is done to maximise profits and minimize paying taxes and if consultants, accountants to their job properly this is done in a way thats still legal (often borderline or somewhat shady but still legal).

Sometimes they do go over the line and it could be considered tax avoiding or worse. And sometimes these companies are effectively used to launder dirty money.

I suspect the vast majority of people mentionned in this whole affaire haven't done anything illegal, at least not technically.

 

[BigBarcaBoy]

Does messi work for the fsb ?

 

[Flavia]

It will affect his reputation though Flavia. He can't control that, and it doesn't matter the reasons. Most people won't search to find the details, they'll know Messi's name appeared in a tax-scandal regarding offshore accounts in Panama.

That damage was done already. And he did setup the company. Should had close it by now too, as it was supposedly inactive.

 

[Vlom]

Quite a few experts on international fiscal laws in here

 

[Flavia]

this is the part that bugs me.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...s-become-enmeshed-in-offshore-world-1.2595555


btw, don't know if already posted but

They were still with that advisor there, IIRC. More names should surface eventually, I think.

 

[Yannik]

How has any of that research about how companies are set up helped form your opinion that Messi is guilty?

You dont know anything more than anyone else depsite that research.

If anything it has left you thinking you are the informed one and know more than everyone else.

What way will they gain time that will prove to help them?

Yes it is. The research I made told me that the agency Messi used to create his offshore company has always had a reputation of being accountable for tax frauds, money laundering and other shady business and I also know about the services that these offshore-creating agencys offer to keep it unsuspicious. I know the conditions of transparency in Panama, Switzerland or other tax havens (not all of them though). I know about the requirements needed to create an offshore business and I've explained why the amount iof requirements makes it appear unlikely that Messi didn't know about it. And I now know that Messi DID create an offshore-account in Panama, despite claiming not to use it (which I don't know, but don't think). I know from the documents that the first reference to the company in Mossack Fonseca’s files came on June 13, 2013 - one day after Spanish prosecutors first filed tax fraud charges against Messi and his father. I also know that in the earlier case, Messi and his father were also denying all charges until actual evidence was shown.

The rest is my conclusion.
I still don't buy the theory that you be so out of touch with your own money even though you're filthy rich and have people to sort that thing out for you, but let's say that Messi had no idea about the first case.
Then you're probably gonna have a talk with your money people and tell them to get shit sorted out and to keep shit clean.
When the same shit then goes down a second time right after, you know this isnt just bad advice from the people around him.

 

[Flavia]

Of course they gain something, which is Time. The alternative would be admitting everything before the investigations have even started.

The Messis are suing the papers that claimed that offshore company was used for tax evasion. They have nothing to gain from lying, as they'd lose and have to pay El confidential for that.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes it is. The research I made told me that the agency Messi used to create his offshore company has always had a reputation of being accountable for tax frauds, money laundering and other shady business. I know the conditions of transparency in Panama, Switzerland or other tax havens (not all of them though). I know about the requirements needed to create an offshore business and I've explained why the amount iof requirements makes it appear unlikely that Messi didn't know about it. And I now know that Messi DID create an offshore-account in Panama, despite claiming not to use it (which I don't know, but don't think). I know from the documents that the first reference to the company in Mossack Fonseca’s files came on June 13, 2013 - one day after Spanish prosecutors first filed tax fraud charges against Messi and his father. I also know that in the earlier case, Messi and his father were also denying all charges until actual evidence was shown.

The rest is my conclusion.
I still don't buy the theory that you be so out of touch with your own money even though you're filthy rich and have people to sort that thing out for you, but let's say that Messi had no idea about the first case.
Then you're probably gonna have a talk with your money people and tell them to get shit sorted out and to keep shit clean.
When the same shit then goes down a second time right after, you know this isnt just bad advice from the people around him.

The fact this company is linked to this type of thing doesnt take research. It is the basis of the whole story. The biggest story is the company and their dealings not Messi.

Again you research didnt prove that Messi had an account there any more than the headlines and stories we have all read.

When documents were filed in 2013 is common knowledge and in many of the stories today.

Nothing you have come up with in that 'research' is unique or anything not widely known/reported and none of it gives any insight into the individual case of Messi.

What you call research I got in 2/3 media stories.

You are no more informed with relevant information.

 

[Vlom]

[MENTION=19371]Yannik[/MENTION] you're talking out of your a** mate, you already condamned Messi and are rolling with it no matter what, that's all

Being investigated is NOT equal being found guilty.
Setting up an offshore company is NOT illegal.

These are axioms.

But you can keep acting like you own the absolute truth about this story if that floats your boat.

 

[CatalinR10]

just a random comment passing by

 

[Mitchell1978]

Quite a few experts on international fiscal laws in here

expert, not at all, but i actually work in anti-laundering cell of a (local) bank so i know something about it though its not an area i specialise in

I know for a fact that several big Belgian sportspeople (mostly in socces and cycling) own offshore accounts, company's considered tax havens or with at least soft tax laws but these things aren't illegal because of that. It will depend on a lot of things, local tax laws, tax laws of one person's residence, how and where money was earned etc These things are usually very complicated (often on purpose though)

 

[Vlom]

just a random comment passing by

We need you in the women's thread during these depressing times.

May be some nudes will confort us after losing the league to RM and the news of Messi going to jail soon.

 

[serghei]

Messi shouldn't be worried. There's always the ICL he can play in.

 

[Yannik]

Again you research didnt prove that Messi had an account there any more than the headlines and stories we have all read.

Again he has ADMITTED to have that company, that he just isn't using (as he says). I've said this three times now. I've even linked the tweet in which Flavia translated exactly THAT.

The rest of your comment is a bit childish "uhh you are not as well informed as you think, I can research all that". Yeah okay, I was just referencing the claims I made with the informations I have, not "bragging" about it. If you are able to google thigns, that is fine, good thing, still means that is actual Research.