10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[Yannik]

Who will conduct the investigations? The Spanish authorities? I guess they will just add one more shell company to their list, right?

This smells heavily sorry? What exactly are you saying Yannik? I must say you struck me as pretty eager to happily announce that Messi is guilty even before the details are known.

Maybe you are just having a moment of schadenfreude at our expense?

I don't know who will do the investigations or what they will bring, I'm just voicing my personal disbelief in this regard and I've really tried to keep this objective as I have included a lot of details and explanations to what's with the Panama leaks, and why I think that Messi is involved. If you feel that I'm somewhat biased into some Anti-Messi agenda because I say that, then feel free to think so. I might jsut aswell wonder if you are maybe denying everything or even questioning the leaks because of your own subjective biasm. After all it's easier to believe a story when you actually want to believe it. I don't think many here would put up so much doubts over this, had it been any XYZ sportsmen from South Korea.

 

[Mitchell1978]

I am lost here. What "story" do you not buy? That Messi himself was not aware of all the intricacies, legal or illegal, regarding his taxes? Or his family's statement that the newly-revealed shell company by PP has been inactive?

And what 2nd case? Why would there be a second case? If it is just ANOTHER shell company adding to the list, why would there be another lawsuit?

if its a company they never used there won't be a lawsuit or even an investigation that last longer then 5 minutes

 

[Yannik]

You are presuming he is guilty when know nothing about what happened.

Well you were presuming he is not aware of it, despite knowing just as much as me.
I don't see how that would make you any less presumptional, you're just having a different opinion on it.

 

[serghei]

Well you were presuming he is not aware of it, despite knowing just as much as me.

Well, thing is you have to prove he was aware of it and had intent to commit fraud. Which is very hard to do. Messi on tape saying how great it is to cheat on taxes would be solid evidence. Until somebody proves Messi deliberately cheated on tax, he can be called dumb or negligent, but not malicious in the eyes of the law.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I don't know who will do the investigations or what they will bring, I'm just voicing my personal disbelief in this regard and I've really tried to keep this objective as I have included a lot of details and explanations to what's with the Panama leaks, and why I think that Messi is involved. If you feel that I'm somewhat biased into some Anti-Messi agenda because I say that, then feel free to think so. I might jsut aswell wonder if you are maybe denying everything or even questioning the leaks because of your own subjective biasm. After all it's easier to believe a story when you actually want to believe it. I don't think many here would put up so much doubts over this, had it been any XYZ sportsmen from South Korea.

Did you really explain why you think Messi is involved? And exactly what does "Messi is involved" mean? Of course Messi is involved because he was named in PP, the holy grail of all investigative reporting apparently.

All kidding aside, of course Messi is involved because there is an ongoing court case and investigation on this very subject matter. But are you saying Messi is personally involved? That he was aware of all the intricacies? How?

Doubts? Why shouldn't there be? Of course there should be doubts. Nothing the PP has said is DEFINITIVE, unless you know something we don't.

 

[Yannik]

Well, thing is you have to prove he was aware of it and had intent to commit fraud. Which is very hard to do. Messi on tape saying how great it is to cheat on taxes would be solid evidence.

That is right, but if we reach a point where Messi had actually signed a contract to found an offshore company, then he would be the one that needs to rpove that he wasn't aware of what he is doing.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well you were presuming he is not aware of it, despite knowing just as much as me.
I don't see how that would make you any less presumptional, you're just having a different opinion on it.

Where am I making a presumption he is innocent?

I am just saying what it looks like from the information given. You seem to ignore half that information and want him to be guilty.

 

[Flavia]

That is right, but if we reach a point where Messi had actually signed a contract to found an offshore company, then he would be the one that needs to rpove that he wasn't aware of what he is doing.

Again, owing an offshore company is not illegal. Or a crime. If it's indeed inactive, nothing will come from it. And they really won't gain anything from lying.

 

[serghei]

That is right, but if we reach a point where Messi had actually signed a contract to found an offshore company, then he would be the one that needs to rpove that he wasn't aware of what he is doing.

He can say he didn't know that what he did was illegal and that he acted on the advice of his accountants. That he believed what the accountants told him. Where's the intent? I see stupidity, negligence, naivity. Not intent.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Well you were presuming he is not aware of it, despite knowing just as much as me.
I don't see how that would make you any less presumptional, you're just having a different opinion on it.

But you are the one who is pushing to make it sound like he is the kingpin behind all of this.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Anyway, let's see how this goes. If Messi knowingly and deliberately evades taxes illegally, he should pay the price, whether going to jail at night like Uli Hoeness did and playing football during the day, is up to the judge. But if this new shell company turns out to be nothing, sue the hell out of SZ and ICIJ.

 

[Yannik]

Did you really explain why you think Messi is involved? And exactly what does "Messi is involved" mean? Of course Messi is involved because he was named in PP, the holy grail of all investigative reporting apparently.

All kidding aside, of course Messi is involved because there is an ongoing court case and investigation on this very subject matter. But are you saying Messi is personally involved? That he was aware of all the intricacies? How?

Alright, I have posted quite a few comments, but I can break it down for you:
Because he founded an offshore company in Panama, with the help of a company called Mossack Fonseca that is basically doing nothing else but creating offshore companies in tax havens for money laundering purposes. The company isn't just known till today, they were already very known in 2011 and prior to that. They even offer you such services as employing nominee shareholders to cover the whole thing and make it look like an actual running business. There is basically no other use to an offshore company, other than either use it (for what in Messis case?) or to launder money or commit tax frauds., which is what 99% of people who found one, actually do. Then he comes up with the explanation "I didn't use it.", which basically confirms that Megastar Enterprises exists (thus kinda approving that the source to the leaks is legit, at least on this one) but also makes me wonder: For what did he found a company then?

 

[JamDav1982]

Alright, I have posted quite a few comments, but I can break it down for you:
Because he founded an offshore company in Panama, with the help of a company called Mossack Fonseca that is basically doing nothing else but creating offshore companies in tax havens for money laundering purposes. The company isn't just known till today, they were already very known in 2011 and prior to that. They even offer you such services as employing nominee shareholders to cover the whole thing and make it look like an actual running business. There is basically no other use to an offshore company, other than either use it (for what in Messis case?) or to launder money or commit tax frauds., which is what 99% of people who found one, actually do. Then he comes up with the explanation "I didn't use it.", which basically confirms that Megastar Enterprises exists (thus kinda approving that the source to the leaks is legit, at least on this one) but also makes me wonder: For what did he found a company then?

Acted on bad advice and then it was stopped would by my guess.

Why do you think it was never used?

 

[serghei]

Acted on bad advice and then it was stopped would by my guess.

Why do you think it was never used?

That's the most plausible reason. And a very good question.

 

[Yannik]

Acted on bad advice and then it was stopped would by my guess.

That would be a guess, but it's not a very likely one imo. Every footballer in spain in the past 20 years that was found guilty of tax evasion said exactly this. And they got away with it.
I don't know about you, but I wonder if this "Get Out Of Jail Free Card" might be the main reason, why so many footballers in spain are doing it to begin with.

Why do you think it was never used?

I don't want to be a dick, but a few comments earlier you criticized me for not having read the tweet (which has been mentioned multiple times) in which Messi said that he has never used that company, and now you basically did the same thing and it's basically the same tweet that I didn't see. Well here it is.

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Also HOLY FUCK guys,

No way I'm doing all those