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Flavia
Guest
He can't. And he wouldn't, even if he could.
10 - Lionel Messi - v4
- Thread starter Barcaman
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He can't. And he wouldn't, even if he could.
LordLichtenstein
New member
Call it what you want, but he has suffered in Argentina enough, people questioning him etcc.. That if he decided to play for spain that would be a breath of fresh air for him, I'm thinking about the human being and not the football player here by the way.
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
People are just joking, I refuse to believe they actually meant it 
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Flavia
Guest
Sepuldinho
New member
Im still hoping for his come back ala zidane in the next WC. Hopefully no more Higuain, Di Maria and Aguero though. And a proper manager
serghei
Senior Member
One big problem for Messi is Barca's philosophy of playing, and it being vastly different from what Argentina plays. Messi is Barcelona football at it's finest, and that involves a high degree of trusting your teammates. Henry said it once, that he has moved position one time to get more involved in the game and Pep literally yelled at him and said he needed to stay in his place and trust his teammates to make the play for him. Henry then vacated his position one more time in search for some action and Pep subbed him. Just like that. And it was fucking Titi Henry.
You keep your position, and wait for your teammate to do his job. If everybody does his job then the ball gets to you, and it gets to you where and when you can make something with it. That is the way Barca plays on the ball. Players trust each other to do their part. But for this system to work there has to be an unique understanding between everyone (from CBs, to FBs, to CMs, to Forwards). That's how the ball circulates. The ball moves a lot, players less so in positional, because they have to claim space and stretch teams. Now, this is more or less the football Messi knows by heart. He knows that if he waits in his place, the ball will get to him. Iniesta, Xavi, Dani Alves, Busi, they will make sure that this happens and that Messi is found with very good, high-quality passes quite often. He is activated by one of his teammate (most often Xavi who was the main player responsible for turning a neutral action into a potentially dangerous action). Messi was the player who would then turn a potentially dangerous action into a dangerous action or a critical action.
Now, back to Argentina. The system doesn't work here because the players don't know it, and even if they did, their quality doesn't allow them to activate Messi in a potentially dangerous position. That is why Messi must adapt, and try to forget the Barcelona way of playing. He's dealing with less skilled players, slower football brains. He would stand in his place like he did in positional at Barcelona and he'd spend minutes without sniffing the ball (there's a video from last year's game vs Chile when Messi had a lot of space at times, but his teammates were just not clever enough to see those gaps). Because the piece that has to move the ball from Rojo (example) to Messi is not Xavi, but Banega, not Busi or Iniesta, but Biglia. Trusting your teammates in positional play only works when these teammates have the necessary quality to do execute their role time and time again, like clockwork. If they don't have that skill, you only have few options. Do the whole job yourself, like dropping deep and taking the ball from the middle of the park, in which case you set up Higuain and Aguero so they can miss chance after chance, or you try to do cycles of 4-5 dribbles, instead of 1-2 dribbles (which would've been the case if you got the ball higher up the pitch). Problem is it's almost impossible to dribble 4-5 chileans in a row. This is not FIFA. We're talking about though defenders, strong and committed, that are not at all easy to get past by. The best option for Messi imo would be to stay closer to the opposition's box, but move more off the ball and make himself harder to mark. He needs to receive the ball between the two lines of defenders set up by the other team. Take command of his team more, stop waiting for Biglia to do his job (as it would be the case if he knew how to pass right) and start to treat players Biglia like the mediocre player he is, one that only passes when he's sure he won't miss it. Work overtime to make sure even a Biglia can pass you the ball.
You keep your position, and wait for your teammate to do his job. If everybody does his job then the ball gets to you, and it gets to you where and when you can make something with it. That is the way Barca plays on the ball. Players trust each other to do their part. But for this system to work there has to be an unique understanding between everyone (from CBs, to FBs, to CMs, to Forwards). That's how the ball circulates. The ball moves a lot, players less so in positional, because they have to claim space and stretch teams. Now, this is more or less the football Messi knows by heart. He knows that if he waits in his place, the ball will get to him. Iniesta, Xavi, Dani Alves, Busi, they will make sure that this happens and that Messi is found with very good, high-quality passes quite often. He is activated by one of his teammate (most often Xavi who was the main player responsible for turning a neutral action into a potentially dangerous action). Messi was the player who would then turn a potentially dangerous action into a dangerous action or a critical action.
Now, back to Argentina. The system doesn't work here because the players don't know it, and even if they did, their quality doesn't allow them to activate Messi in a potentially dangerous position. That is why Messi must adapt, and try to forget the Barcelona way of playing. He's dealing with less skilled players, slower football brains. He would stand in his place like he did in positional at Barcelona and he'd spend minutes without sniffing the ball (there's a video from last year's game vs Chile when Messi had a lot of space at times, but his teammates were just not clever enough to see those gaps). Because the piece that has to move the ball from Rojo (example) to Messi is not Xavi, but Banega, not Busi or Iniesta, but Biglia. Trusting your teammates in positional play only works when these teammates have the necessary quality to do execute their role time and time again, like clockwork. If they don't have that skill, you only have few options. Do the whole job yourself, like dropping deep and taking the ball from the middle of the park, in which case you set up Higuain and Aguero so they can miss chance after chance, or you try to do cycles of 4-5 dribbles, instead of 1-2 dribbles (which would've been the case if you got the ball higher up the pitch). Problem is it's almost impossible to dribble 4-5 chileans in a row. This is not FIFA. We're talking about though defenders, strong and committed, that are not at all easy to get past by. The best option for Messi imo would be to stay closer to the opposition's box, but move more off the ball and make himself harder to mark. He needs to receive the ball between the two lines of defenders set up by the other team. Take command of his team more, stop waiting for Biglia to do his job (as it would be the case if he knew how to pass right) and start to treat players Biglia like the mediocre player he is, one that only passes when he's sure he won't miss it. Work overtime to make sure even a Biglia can pass you the ball.
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6 Ballons for Messi
but what if he wins 7??
Just like maradona scored in 86 final am I right?
Messi is the goat, whether he wins with argentina or not and nothing can change that.
Zidane121
Banned
3 finals from Messi, 0 goals and poor performances. Maradona scored 5 goals in that 1986 WC and assisted another 5, so that's 10 goals he was involved in, including the goal of the century in the quarter final and played well in the final too, set up the winner. The goal of the century is worthy of wc victory alone.
Messi didn't even score in the knockout stages of the 2014 WC. During the whole tournament, even though they got to the final, he wasn't anything special like we've seen him perform at Barca, scored a fk v nigeria, a late winner, and not much more. It's getting very frustrating watching him fail with Arg again and again.
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F
Flavia
Guest
Messi scored and was involved in goals during this copa too. If Messi had bottled 3 sitters in 3 finals like chokein did, you'd have a point. But he didn't. In 1986 argentina had a better team. Now it's just names. The fact Argentina made to 3 finals in a row is huge, considering everything.
Zidane121
Banned
But this is kind of my point, why isn't he even getting in the positions in the finals to score goals, 2014 WC Final did he even have a shot on target? He had a 1v1 vs Neuer and put it wide, was easier than Higuains chance in the final. Higuain isn't the best player in the world, that's why I said we can't keep blaming him. I didn't even watch the whole game last night but I'm guessing it would've been the same performance from Leo as the 2014 WC final. That's unheard of for Messi at Barca in a big game. People just wanna see him replicate his Barca form with the NT.
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