10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Raketa10]

We all have to calm down but he also needs to realize he can't just walk for 90 minutes with zero fucks given. No one can do that not even Messi its just not how football is played these days. You can have a bad day but you always have to try.

I don't think anyone is mad because he had a bad game we are pissed because there are games this year where he looks like he just doesn't give a fuck.

 

[RevoTeller]

If you take into account his 2008-2012 and his 2015, on average I would have to say he is the best of all time.

Yes, those performances were insane and they are the reason Messi's name is of course amongst the very best in history.

You'd deserve a full shitstorm if you thought he was the GOAT prior to this match and then changed your mind after . If not, then that's just a matter of opinion and an argument on a far bigger scope than anything this match had to do with.

Messi had a career's worth of moments to make his GOAT argument within any given 5 year period of his career. Theoretically he could've been 100% shit in every game since 2012 and he'd still be in the GOAT discussion simply for what he did from 2006-2012. There's nothing about today or even within the past 2-3 months that even slightly changes the magnitude of his legacy for better/worse.

No, of course it's not after today.
The argument is very complex for it just to be explained here in a few sentences, however I will just say that, to me, Messi lacks in leadership and, to a certain degree, in mentality, because there's no doubt that by a pure football-wise point of view he is second to almost none in the history of football.

Only exception was 2015, when he literally carried a whole team on his shoulders (which was not the 2009-2012 team anymore): THAT Messi to me was really an overall complete package and super-serious GOAT contender.

Honestly don't think he really gives a damn about football anymore, he's done it all for club, wonder why Messi the past 2 seasons always looks way more motivated for Argentina? He shows up walks around and leaves and everyone makes excuses for him.

He does not perform well under pressure or adversity anymore. The only time we see him perform well is when the conditions perfectly suit him. These conditions usually include late home matches against mid table sides who don't park the bus.

He will show up to play maybe once or twice a month when the conditions are perfect for him and dribble past the entire team multiple times and those highlight reel clips will keep us satisfied until his next showing.

Agree with this.

 

[Pedro]

This just reminds me of when Ronaldinho was nearing the end of his Barca career he was being very lazy no effort or much running and in the end Pep sold him, dunno what's gonna happen with Leo but he needs to wake up now at the business end of the season.

 

[Ripsta]

Honestly don't think he really gives a damn about football anymore, he's done it all for club, wonder why Messi the past 2 seasons always looks way more motivated for Argentina? He shows up walks around and leaves and everyone makes excuses for him.

He does not perform well under pressure or adversity anymore. The only time we see him perform well is when the conditions perfectly suit him. These conditions usually include late home matches against mid table sides who don't park the bus.

He will show up to play maybe once or twice a month when the conditions are perfect for him and dribble past the entire team multiple times and those highlight reel clips will keep us satisfied until his next showing.

His celebrations on Wednesday night suggest otherwise.

This walking around thing isn't new, I just think the manager doesn't have the balls to tell him to get moving. Could you imagine if Enrique did do (the right thing) and bench him for not putting in the same effort as others? There are so many idiotic fans out there who just wouldn't be able to see the bigger picture.

 

[FlaFCB]

Because he used to do this just before the world cup too in tata martino's season.

He would just walk back then not just one or two matches but a lot of matches. And that used to get on my nerves. I don't think he walked anywhere near like back then and people are exagerratting but still he seemed quite disinterested. I wouldn't blame him though. But yeah, he has this annoying habit of not giving a fuck.

He was having stomach problems back then, guess you forgot. He'd vomit during almost every match. He fixed that with his dietician from Italy. Messi is getting older. Stamina was never his forte, he needs to take care of that now too.

Messi walks since forever. people only care when Barça lose, though. When he bail us out, nobody cares.

The amount of vultures that show up in this thread after a bad game is ridiculous. Just look how many goals he already has in 2017.

 

[Cool]

Messi played like crap and deserves criticism, but I swear some of the things I read here when he has a bad game or two, is just hilarious.

Messi can have 15 straight games of wonderful performances with important, clutch moments and goals, but he has a couple of bad games and people start saying that he is finished, we shouldn't renew his contract, that he doesn't care about football anymore.

Guys, please.

He's not finished and he cares about football, its his life. But with all due respect to him and his achievements in Barcelona, but to move forward with the 3-4-3 as the new formation for the rest of Lucho's time then Messi needs to get it that when he's surrounded by three players he needs to do some off ball movement to escape the marking, not just a few steps left and right and then turning his head to look at Suarez

Again, with all due respect even to you.

Now, if we intend to play with 4-4-3 again, then Messi needs to understand that he has to occupy the RW space and not drift inside and leave the RB alone therefore breaking the system.

If he doesnt do the above in these two formations the we will be always playing with 10 players in the field against the big times (like we've seen against RM and we will see in these upcoming CL games against strong opponents).

Just my two cents, not looking for a fight, not looking for a BBZ post, just my opinion about the current Messi situation.

He doesnt owe us anything.

 

[DonAK]

He's not finished and he cares about football, its his life. But with all due respect to him and his achievements in Barcelona, but to move forward with the 3-4-3 as the new formation for the rest of Lucho's time then Messi needs to get it that when he's surrounded by three players he needs to do some off ball movement to escape the marking, not just a few steps left and right and then turning his head to look at Suarez

Again, with all due respect even to you.

Now, if we intend to play with 4-4-3 again, then Messi needs to understand that he has to occupy the RW space and not drift inside and leave the RB alone therefore breaking the system.

If he doesnt do the above in these two formations the we will be always playing with 10 players in the field against the big times (like we've seen against RM and we will see in these upcoming CL games against strong opponents).

Just my two cents, not looking for a fight, not looking for a BBZ post, just my opinion about the current Messi situation.

He doesnt owe us anything.

You're saying he need to show more effort at times and do more off the ball and that is a valid point. My post was pointed towards all the people shitposting in here, not posts like these where you are pointing out a valid point and criticism of Messi and what he need to improve going forward.

I agree with you that he need to do more to make himself available, especially if he is going to play as a CAM, because standing at one place will hurt him and the team's attack even more if we cannot get the ball to him.

 

[GetIn]

Messi bailed Barça multiple times in Januara and febraury games. Barça lose, he plays a bad game, and people rise from somewhere to post bs like this... Seriously

Without Messi we wouldn't even be fighting for la liga. Guess you have no memory.

Of course Messi is still our best player by miles and has bailed us out repeatedly this season but that's mostly due to his sheer individual skill that he can display at any given second. He is my favourite player too, but you've got to hand out critism when it's due. The truth is he does not put in that many complete performances anymore. Most matches he shows up for 10-20 minutes and that's usually good enough to win considering how good he is.

Something happened to him after he picked up the injury vs Las Palmas in fall 2015. After he recovered from that he moved back to the middle of the pitch and has never been the same. Of course he is still the best player in the world as I've said repeatedly and I'm not trying to take anything away from him or his abilities, it's just that somethings off with him. Whether that's fitness related or mentail remains to be seen.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Bad performance, bad mentality. Same shit. Criticize him, he deserves it.

Some people here go into a crazy meltdown though which sorry to say, is retarded. I've refrained from saying stupid, retarded, but it is what it is.

When you got the memory of a goldfish and say that we should sell him, not renew him, that he is a choker, that he's finished when he was fucking incredible most of the games we've played this season(heck a couple of games ago against Celta) then you deserve shit for shitposting and being an idiot.

What? Bad performance and bad mentality is not the same. It's possible to fight and still play badly just as it is possible to stroll nonchalantly around for 90 mins and picking out passes we don't even see from the TV. Messi has been our most important player this season, but he's been very fucking far from what he could be. Even his best games (Celtic, Sevilla, Espanyol, Celta) were miles below his 14/15 counterparts.

 

[oggmar]

I also don't think it has anything to do with fitness rather than mentality. Even his passing was just sloppy.

Fitness certainly affects your passing and overall focus so I don't know

 

[DonAK]

What? Bad performance and bad mentality is not the same. It's possible to fight and still play badly just as it is possible to stroll nonchalantly around for 90 mins and picking out passes we don't even see from the TV. Messi has been our most important player this season, but he's been very fucking far from what he could be. Even his best games (Celtic, Sevilla, Espanyol, Celta) were miles below his 14/15 counterparts.

Not what I meant. The point is, criticizing him based on a bad performance or showing a lack of effort in certain games is a valid point and criticism of him. To say he's a choker, finished and other things is not as that's just shitposting.

 

[JamDav1982]

Fitness certainly affects your passing and overall focus so I don't know

If his fitness is that bad then he needs to come off and allow himself to get properly fit again.

It is clear he doesnt like missing games or being substituted and it is something that needs addressed.

 

[Total-Football]

He's not finished and he cares about football, its his life. But with all due respect to him and his achievements in Barcelona, but to move forward with the 3-4-3 as the new formation for the rest of Lucho's time then Messi needs to get it that when he's surrounded by three players he needs to do some off ball movement to escape the marking, not just a few steps left and right and then turning his head to look at Suarez

Again, with all due respect even to you.

Now, if we intend to play with 4-4-3 again, then Messi needs to understand that he has to occupy the RW space and not drift inside and leave the RB alone therefore breaking the system.

If he doesnt do the above in these two formations the we will be always playing with 10 players in the field against the big times (like we've seen against RM and we will see in these upcoming CL games against strong opponents).

Just my two cents, not looking for a fight, not looking for a BBZ post, just my opinion about the current Messi situation.

He doesnt owe us anything.

My exact ideas since it was an unpopular opinion here .. But it's not going to happen apparently . Therefore i see an alternative, Moving Messi to the false nine position and make him the furthest player in the picth. That's the only way to contain the damage he's causing the team defensivley and still having him in the starting eleven because we all know what he's capable of.. He might score a triple out of 5 touches from the whole game. This decision means finding a solution for Suarez, and if means benching Suarez (difficult games) then be it. Or we can do what Mourinho did with eto'o or Benitez with Kurt, which is moving Suarez to RW position.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Not what I meant. The point is, criticizing him based on a bad performance or showing a lack of effort in certain games is a valid point and criticism of him. To say he's a choker, finished and other things is not as that's just shitposting.

Fair enough, but I never said any such thing if that is what you're talking about.

 

[DonAK]

Fair enough, but I never said any such thing if that is what you're talking about.

I never said you did. I agreed with you lol.

Just pointed out how your point was valid among all the other crap some people spew around here.